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High speed questions


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Old 07-10-2014, 04:31 PM   #1
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Default High speed questions

My gun recently broke and its finally time to upgrade. My gun is the lonex fmg4. I have in the gun;
Lonex red piston,
Zci piston head,
Lonex bushings
Lonex trigger group
Lonex cylinder
And lonex a1
So i already have some decent parts in my gun, but i am planning on putting in;
Shs 12:1 (why not, faster than 13:1?!)
M130
New ph
Lonex ch
Shs pinion
Nuke fet
Goal 40rps 420 fps (.2)
So i have some questions now, with an m130 i will get higher than 420 so if i short stroke, i can pull my fps down?! How many teeth should i take off? Also the nuke fet has tvs diode, but im not completely sure on what is does. So should i get a resettable fuse mosfet instead? Also, for a dsg, i have heard that a 14:1 is better than 10:1 because 10:1 needs added torque. Is this true? In that case could i run an 18 tpa 14:1 and it would be faster than a 22tpa 10:1? on my dsg I'm looking for 50 rps. But if a 14:1 would give me more options than a 10:1 i will do that.
Thanks for help in advance




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Old 07-10-2014, 05:01 PM   #2
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Default High speed questions

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Originally Posted by natethegreat View Post
My gun recently broke and its finally time to upgrade. My gun is the lonex fmg4. I have in the gun;
Lonex red piston,
Zci piston head,
Lonex bushings
Lonex trigger group
Lonex cylinder
And lonex a1
So i already have some decent parts in my gun, but i am planning on putting in;
Shs 12:1 (why not, faster than 13:1?!)
M130
New ph
Lonex ch
Shs pinion
Nuke fet
Goal 40rps 420 fps (.2)
So i have some questions now, with an m130 i will get higher than 420 so if i short stroke, i can pull my fps down?! How many teeth should i take off? Also the nuke fet has tvs diode, but im not completely sure on what is does. So should i get a resettable fuse mosfet instead? Also, for a dsg, i have heard that a 14:1 is better than 10:1 because 10:1 needs added torque. Is this true? In that case could i run an 18 tpa 14:1 and it would be faster than a 22tpa 10:1? on my dsg I'm looking for 50 rps. But if a 14:1 would give me more options than a 10:1 i will do that.
Thanks for help in advance




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1. Your piston is heavy. I'd recommend that you either Swiss cheese or get a lighter one, like an SHS 15 tooth.

2. If you plan on using an 11.1 lipo, iirc that setup should yield around 44 rps.

3. If you are getting a new piston head, get a lonex POM or super shooter POM, ZCI has had some manufacturing problems recently in my experience.

4. Different brands of springs yield slightly different fps ratings, I'd say if you have a chrono available, then short stroke one at a time until you get desired velocity. Probably either 1 or 2 teeth. Each tooth short strokes will take off 10-15 fps and will help reduce chances of PME.

5. Not sure about the TVS diode, but I've heard nuke fets to be good, if not, zardichar sells them pretty cheap and they work well.

6. I've heard that same thing about dsg's. I talked to zardichar about that same question recently and I was told that both would yield a very similar rof, but 10:1's with 22 tpa would be slightly more efficient.

6.5. Both setups you listed would give higher rof than you listed. On an 11.1, both would probably yield in the lower 60's rof wise.




Last edited by nathan327; 07-10-2014 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:32 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by nathan327 View Post
1. Your piston is heavy. I'd recommend that you either Swiss cheese or get a lighter one, like an SHS 15 tooth.

2. If you plan on using an 11.1 lipo, iirc that setup should yield around 44 rps.

3. If you are getting a new piston head, get a lonex POM or super shooter POM, ZCI has had some manufacturing problems recently in my experience.

4. Different brands of springs yield slightly different fps ratings, I'd say if you have a chrono available, then short stroke one at a time until you get desired velocity. Probably either 1 or 2 teeth. Each tooth short strokes will take off 10-15 fps and will help reduce chances of PME.

5. Not sure about the TVS diode, but I've heard nuke fets to be good, if not, zardichar sells them pretty cheap and they work well.

6. I've heard that same thing about dsg's. I talked to zardichar about that same question recently and I was told that both would yield a very similar rof, but 10:1's with 22 tpa would be slightly more efficient.

6.5. Both setups you listed would give higher rof than you listed. On an 11.1, both would probably yield in the lower 60's rof wise.
Ok thanks, il go one at a time here, with my piston i am very aware of the weight, so i swiss cheesed as much as i could and i have a friends shs to compare, and it is lighter on the scale, the higher rps is not a big deal to me, as for the short stroking, i dont have a chrono available, but my field has one, as soon as its together i will test, and then adjust from there, thanks for all the help




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Old 07-10-2014, 11:40 PM   #4
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The weight isn't the only disadvantage of the Lonex piston, the SHS piston will simply last much much longer. I have stripped several Lonex piston, I have yet to break a single SHS piston. I've had them survive catastrophic PME without a scratch, the sector gear cracked instead. For me there are no reasons to use a more expensive and less durable Lonex piston, the only reason might be if you want a mechanical "fuse". That doesn't make sense though, as you can get a new gear cheaper than a Lonex piston.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:14 AM   #5
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The weight isn't the only disadvantage of the Lonex piston, the SHS piston will simply last much much longer. I have stripped several Lonex piston, I have yet to break a single SHS piston. I've had them survive catastrophic PME without a scratch, the sector gear cracked instead. For me there are no reasons to use a more expensive and less durable Lonex piston, the only reason might be if you want a mechanical "fuse". That doesn't make sense though, as you can get a new gear cheaper than a Lonex piston.

I guess now this is down to personal preference. It came in my gun, and it has zero wear, im not arguing, because i do know the shs piston is wonderful, and better. Its my piston of choice for my dsg.


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Old 07-11-2014, 12:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natethegreat View Post
My gun recently broke and its finally time to upgrade. My gun is the lonex fmg4. I have in the gun;
Lonex red piston,
Excellent, but make sure you swiss cheese it.
Zci piston head,
Alright, but the Lonex POM PH is lighter and better overall, but a tad bit more expensive.
Lonex bushings
Good.
Lonex trigger group
Okay.
Lonex cylinder
Great Choice just make sure you match the cylinder type to barrel length. Wingman wrote an excellent wall of text on it in my teching thread if you'd like to check it out.
And lonex a1
A2 would be better with this build. Trust me.
So i already have some decent parts in my gun, but i am planning on putting in;
Shs 12:1 (why not, faster than 13:1?!)
Good budget gears.
M130
Alright. You may have to SS, but make sure you correct AOE.
New ph
Lonex POM is really good.
Lonex ch
Good.
Shs pinion
Great brand compatibility. SHS pinion gears mesh well with the brand of gears you've chosen (SHS).
Nuke fet
I don't have any experience with these.
Goal 40rps 420 fps (.2)
Okay my responses are in bold. Your build goal is very reasonable here!
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Old 07-11-2014, 01:21 AM   #7
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Ow wow thank you, all of your points really make sense to me, i just have a few curve balls, the lonex cylinder i have is not a type O, or type 1, im not sure what to call it, ImageUploadedByAirsoft Society1405041211.628921.jpg i have a feeling that i may be a tad over volumed here running a 363 barrel. I also allready bought the a1, so sadly im stuck with it, with all of my future parts i really have to keep it under 90$, also i have a new problem, ImageUploadedByAirsoft Society1405041464.295516.jpg So that distance is the measurement with my grip on when im testing without my body, and when i put my body on, i lose that much space, its hard to describe, but when i adjust my motor height with half shell, its good, then i put it in my outer body and its off. So, should i dremel my grip or compensate for the distance in half shell?


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Old 07-11-2014, 03:10 AM   #8
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I'll help with the over voluming. If you are over volumed try adding more weight to your piston and piston head by buying ones with ball bearings. However in your case I would highly suggest you get a Type 2 Cylinder, as your Type (unknown) cylinder is providing too much air.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:23 AM   #9
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Default High speed questions

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Originally Posted by Main_Stream View Post
I'll help with the over voluming. If you are over volumed try adding more weight to your piston and piston head by buying ones with ball bearings. However in your case I would highly suggest you get a Type 2 Cylinder, as your Type (unknown) cylinder is providing too much air.
This is a high speed build, so you don't want to add too much weight to the piston. A ball bearing wouldn't hurt anything, but in this case it's much more effective and efficient to just get a proper volumed cylinder. I'd only suggest that you compensate for slight over voluming by weighting the piston if you plan on shooting .40+ gram bbs on a pretty low speed setup.
Otherwise, it is better to use a proper volumed cylinder.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:29 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by nathan327 View Post
This is a high speed build, so you don't want to add too much weight to the piston. A ball bearing wouldn't hurt anything, but in this case it's much more effective and efficient to just get a proper volumed cylinder. I'd only suggest that you compensate for slight over voluming by weighting the piston if you plan on shooting .40+ gram bbs on a pretty low speed setup.
Otherwise, it is better to use a proper volumed cylinder.
Wow... I forgot it was a high speed setup.

Yeah, don't make your piston heavier. Go ahead and Swiss Cheese it. Also, get a Type 2 cylinder. That should be the correct size for your gun.

Also, It's okay that you got the A1, just make sure that you don't put in a super strong spring that it can't pull. The A1 is balanced so I'd guess it could take up to an M150.



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