All,
New to the forum and the game, picked up a Krytac MKII SPR. Lots of fun.
I have G&G .28 bbs and Elite Force Premium Bio BBs, .28gr as well.
G&G ammo is outstanding, hits behind the dot very reliably.
The Elite Force Bio bbs not so much, a lot more left and rights then the G&G ammo.
Is this common with Bio ammo?
I understand from a little research the "nub" style hop up in Krytacs are not as desirable as a flat type.
My questions:
Better to get a hop up unit that has flat style?
Does an Angel or other aftermarket barrel with tighter tolerances, say, 6.1mm increase accuracy and consistency?
Does a tighter barrel cause strain/wear on other parts as well?
I appreciate your patience with the new guy. I plan on backyard plinking and maybe some light outdoor milsims with some friends for now, not going hard core...yet. LOL
All,
New to the forum and the game, picked up a Krytac MKII SPR. Lots of fun.
I have G&G .28 bbs and Elite Force Premium Bio BBs, .28gr as well.
G&G ammo is outstanding, hits behind the dot very reliably.
The Elite Force Bio bbs not so much, a lot more left and rights then the G&G ammo.
Is this common with Bio ammo?
I understand from a little research the "nub" style hop up in Krytacs are not as desirable as a flat type.
My questions:
Better to get a hop up unit that has flat style?
Does an Angel or other aftermarket barrel with tighter tolerances, say, 6.1mm increase accuracy and consistency?
Does a tighter barrel cause strain/wear on other parts as well?
I appreciate your patience with the new guy. I plan on backyard plinking and maybe some light outdoor milsims with some friends for now, not going hard core...yet. LOL
Welcome to the forums! I'm not sure if you meant 6.01mm when you said 6.1mm, but 6.01mm is a precision barrel. It does increase accuracy/consistency. I don't think a tighter barrel causes strain on other parts, but I think it needs good seamless bbs and some cleaning occasionally to not jam.
EF bb's are rebrands...they are made for cost only...not performance. G&G is well known for quality.
For hop-up Rubbers/Packings, the best style is the one with longer contact patches. That is why Flat and R-Hop came into use. Then for simplicity Maple Leaf refined it for slip on simplicity.
Angel Custom is NOT a component maker of "quality". Its an Evike House Brand where they take stock parts and resell it at a premium to fleece the new players in the market place. This applies to all of his house brands. Matrix, 6mm Proshop...etc.
These are all blow guns. Tighter bore in No Way improves accuracy by itself. Barrel consistency is a key factor and the Japanese have the best barrels followed by Taiwan and Hong Kong.
In addition, the BB doesn't even make contact on the inner barrel it floats through the barrel on a cushion of Air. You can see this buy plugging the muzzle end of a inner barrel and dropping a bb in at the breach. This is also how we test IB bore diameter. Slow...tight...fast...normal...etc.
The only strain a TBB imparts on a the mechbox is is you have a stoppage in the barrel at the breech by using bad bbs and trying to ram it into a TBB.
In Asia...most every day players shoot stock 6.08mm for this very reason...
Got it, yes, I did mean 6.01 ...lol.
Guges,
Was hoping you'd reply....read quite a bit of your stuff so far.
Thank you.
Can you point me in the direction of parts needed/install of said hop up upgrade? Fairly mechanically inclined but any cheat/short cuts I can to save time AND be safe would be appreciated.
I see the Maple Leaf available in several different varieties, from 50 to 80 degree. For AEG use, can you tell me what the difference is for in practical use?
Well your limiting factor is your hop-up arm with the captured nub. You can use the stock nub with a ML packing, but it's not ideal. Think 65% of what it should do.
Softer durometer units take less dial in for spin, but the trade off is lower durability. But if you shoot a medium polish bb you need less dial-in, which means less potential wear...it all varies. I tell most people to try a hair to the soft side for starters.
You may need to file open your window on your stock barrel too to all for the larger ML contact patch on their AEG's rubbers/packings.
Guges,
Is there a drop in solution? As in new hop up, new barrel, etc?
I don't mind swapping out parts for an upgrade if it means better performance and getting rid of the arm/nub system of Krytac.
Thank you, again for the explanation and lesson.
I think you can drop in a standard Rotary as a replacement...I have a Krytac Hop-Up here and I will compare it with a G&P rotary to see if they are dimensionally similar.
Brand suggestions? G&G seem to fly like lasers. I'd like a quality bio degradable option in .28 for messing around the backyard. I'm here to learn and appreciate the help.
ML packing
The Krytac inner barrel may or may not need modification, I'm fairly certain it will work. I currently run ML packings on ZCI, Lambda, and ML barrels.
Just ordered up the Maple Leaf packing and the Airsoft arm for my Krytac.
I'll let you know how they turn out once they arrive and I get a chance to get them setup.
All,
New to the forum and the game, picked up a Krytac MKII SPR. Lots of fun.
I have G&G .28 bbs and Elite Force Premium Bio BBs, .28gr as well.
G&G ammo is outstanding, hits behind the dot very reliably.
The Elite Force Bio bbs not so much, a lot more left and rights then the G&G ammo.
Is this common with Bio ammo?
I understand from a little research the "nub" style hop up in Krytacs are not as desirable as a flat type.
My questions:
Better to get a hop up unit that has flat style?
Does an Angel or other aftermarket barrel with tighter tolerances, say, 6.1mm increase accuracy and consistency?
Does a tighter barrel cause strain/wear on other parts as well?
I appreciate your patience with the new guy. I plan on backyard plinking and maybe some light outdoor milsims with some friends for now, not going hard core...yet. LOL
A cheap tightbore won't outperform a stock barrel always. Tight bores grant like 10 more fps but with a tight bore, there is a chance of more side to side surface contact, especially if the barrel is dirty or slightly bent. There are very wide bore barrels out there that have great accuracy but have more fps loss.
There are some really nice 6.03-6.05 stainless barrels out there that provide a nice balance with that fps boost, but are more expensive that a brass barrel.
As for bbs, g&g bbs are probably one of the best options out there for their price. Bio bbs are much softer than normal bbs, that is if they are truly biodegradable. Unfortunately this makes them leave a ton of residue in barrels and they tend to feed horribly in mid cap magazines, they get flat spots from the tension of the magazine which causes them to not feed. Some bio bbs are harder, but aren't really biodegradable, such as hpa bbs. But when your at a milsim, you have to use what works and is allowed, even if it's not truly biodegradable. Some may have had better luck with bios, but I've juggled enough mid caps around with enough brands of bios and spent enough time cleaning barrels to know they aren't the best option for reliability and functionality.
There are some really nice 6.03-6.05 stainless barrels out there that provide a nice balance with that fps boost, but are more expensive that a brass barrel.
One option is Poseidon. I'm using one rn. for $45-75 its not a bad unit at all. the packing it comes with is decent. When i compare it to brass my fps goes up 14ish. granted the brass came from a lancer so idk if that's a good comparison at all. I'm using .2s at 314 fps and its a laser.
Aren't they a special groved barrel? Like a cut-out on the bottom for more air cushion effect.
I've stuck to mostly laylax and pdi barrels. Pdi being higher quality from what I've seen, unfortunately the bore isn't even really polished so they are great candidates for lapping/polish. Zci barrels are very well polished, but they have had quality control issues and from the ones I've seen, they tend to have a slight bend most the time and sometimes internal machining warp from the outside cuts on the barrel.
Another brand that has been considered one of the best are lambda barrels.
Stainless barrels aren't a must. But they don't scratch as easy and don't rust or corrode over time.
However the packing and hopup really determine like 70% of the accuracy, ive always stuck to flat hopping and recent have liked the new maple leaf packings. Some barrels however don't have their packing grove alignment guide cut perfectly across from the window of the barrel, which can cause issues with normal packings and maple leafs.
I forgot to mention this, but i had a friend with a brand new stock arp9 and i asked if i could throw the Poseidon Barrel into just to see what it would read. With the stock barrel it was reading 320-240. With my big boy barrel, it was reading 410-420. I never have seen that kind of fps boost before in my life just by changing the inner barrel setup. Just for more info, the barrel is 455mm long. And no its not that long to improve accuracy and range. its that long cause i was sick of small rails and i just wanted something longer in general.
No...G&G sets up the ARP9 in this way "intentionally".
If you volume for the shorter barrel you will severally affect timing. I.e. setup with ~M90 spring with Type 2 cylinder results in a 330fps on a short barrel AEG. But, the first person who puts a high voltage battery in it and it will PME in seconds. To prevent this if you set it up like a long barrel AEG and a stiffer spring...PME will never happen.
No...G&G Setups up the ARP9 in this way "intentionally".
If you volume for the shorter barrel you will severally affect timing. I.e. setup with ~M90 spring with Type 2 cylinder results in a 330fps AEG on a short barrel AEG. But, the first person who puts a high voltage battery in it and it will PME in seconds. To prevent this if you set it up like a long barrel AEG and a stiffer spring...PME will never happen.
Interesting. Didn't think about people using very weak springs with vented cylinders having a slow return time, but that makes sense. Not exactly efficient but for a manufacturer they probably care more about preventing returns due to stripped pistons more than performance/efficiency.
update.
Put in the Airtech studios arm and ML packing. I have a 6.03mm Prometheus barrel on order as well as some G&G bio .28s.
The elite force bio bbs simply are not as consistent as the non bio G&G bbs i have. I understand they are softer.
Put the arm and packing on yesterday, a little less right to left, I understand I need to get the packing broken in a bit.
Looking forward to putting on the new barrel and comparing results.
I'm already running a 11.1 lipo, if I wanted better trigger cycling in semi mode what are my options?
Pieces of rubber don't need to "break-in" rather it needs to set and the barrel needs to be oil/grease free. Have you cleaned you barrel and packing/rubber/bucking with a solvent?
Your 11.1V 3S LIPO may not be sufficient, especially if the pack is a Airsoft pack made by Tenergy or is sold only in the Airsoft Industry.
If it can't dump the amps, the voltage will sag and your trigger response will be slow.
I use that battery but Mini Tamiya. It fits in the butt end of the stock on my Krytac. I'm on board buying two from you, message me the details and thank you.
So, I wanted to update this thread and keep it rolling as my build spec changes.
Got some killer batteries from Guges...can't kill these things, thanks.
I broke the plastic clip that holds the barrel in, so It's been down a few weeks waiting on parts.
Here's where it is going.
i have the Krytac spec Prometheus 6.03 barrel in, elvish tac R hop patch glued in (it really is cut and made that good. No trimming or sanding).
I have the airtech studios R hop arm for my Krytac hopup (next step is an aftermarket hop up unit, maybe..).
I have several buckings on the way with the new barrel clip.
Mad dog, standard prometheus and a flat Prometheus as well. Depending on what arrives first (USPS is horrible right now due to holidays, black Friday and Cyber Monday)... I may have a little cutting and sanding to do.
This SPR is gonna be my tinker gun to try things, learn, spend, rinse repeat.
i bought a PDW i plan to leave stock...for now. lol.
Once I get it all together and have some trigger time, I'll post back here.
In general, aftermarket hop chambers are a waste of money unless you have identified your unit to be broken or causing an issue. Most chambers do the same thing in relatively similar fashions. The only worthy aftermarket exception to this would be the Maxx Model chambers which are constructed with tighter tolerances than most stock and many aftermarket units. The Krytac hop chamber is not part of the majority here, though. It is very well designed and built. The rhop arm you've installed is all you need. You will not see any meaningful gains, if any, from installing a new hop chamber. I would only go for a Maxx unit if you're keen on getting the internal tracer kit with it. You could pick up a lonex chamber if you wanted to have a trustworthy backup ready to go in case your krytac chamber breaks. But you have the rhop arm specifically for a krytac unit so you might as well get another krytac unit for that purpose.
You have an rhop patch installed so what packing you choose will likely not make much of a difference. The only concern here is which one fits best with your barrel and chamber combination.
I currently have an r-hopped krytac using unknown material on my desk that had a G&G green packing which was too thick all around and wrinkles up at the feed lips on what i believe to be a prometheus stainless EG barrel when inserted all the way in the stock krytac unit.
Yep. I'm nearly there. Appreciate your help as always. At least I know the batteries won't be an issue..
I like cool, new, shiny things. But if they serve little to no purpose...I fail to see a point.
I'll continue to make a few mistakes here and there, but hopefully someone else reads this...sees the path I've chosen and money/time spent...to be able to make their own conclusions.
Information is key, the more we have the more solid base for our own decision making.
That's my approach in life, an eternal scholar. Knowing more is better for decision making.
Seeing what I see in kids now days that think they know everything is rather scary. The Narcissist what I know bestest generation is multiplying quickly and when you offer the facts (LION batteries are inferior...etc) they laugh at you can call you stupid and claim "fake news".
I always walk away with got any science that says its better? And they never do...
C'mon Guges, if you read it on the Internet and Social Media it has to be true...lol.
I take experience AND science together and try to make my own best choices.
I never like to go through the wall first and get bloody. Sometimes, you have to, but more often then not, learn from others.
Frankly, at $50 here, $20 here and there, there are a LOT more expensive hobbies out there.
Yep, I got a few of those too...lol. But I'm having fun, learning and enjoying it.
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