Featured 10.44:1 dsg w/ 36k brushless

Discussion in 'General Airsoft Discussion' started by Stab70, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. Stab70

    Stab70 New Member

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    Eureka
    I have a 36k brushless motor from Warhead. I am super impressed with it, and my current SSG is running 38rps at 360fps with .28's on 13:1 gears and a 130 spring. Lots of work went in to making this reliable lol.

    Anyway, I wanna play around with a dsg build, and possibly keep it, but i cant find anyone who has used a 36k brushless with such quick gears. According to the manufacturer, it has more torque than any brushed motor, and up to this point has not had any problems running the system.
    Has anyone here tried doing this?
     
  2. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Minneapolis
    I would like to see that comment substantiated.

    "... it has more torque than any brushed motor..."

    As of late...there are a lot of items being sold on hype over actual fact.

    I don't doubt that the motor is capable...but for 200.00...well...that is more than many AEG's...so they better be able to prove it.

    FYI...your AEG is running far above safety standards for use on other "players", unless you are a DMR platform. Then it's SA only....at that point...there is really no need for that cost to make a build like that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021

  3. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    Those motors are extremely powerful from what I've witnessed. They can basically pull anything.
    It's quite unbelievable considering a bunch of people on the forum here tried to use rc brushless motors awhile back and it didnt have enough power. Those warhead motors probably have a rotor made of a solid neo magnet, where cheaper brushless in-runners just use suspended neo magnets in resin.

    However, for heat reasons I wouldn't push them too hard as they aren't cheap and the electronics are inside the motor basically. So heat is to consider.

    Also with 10:1 ssg gears the high stress point is between the bevel and pinion. With a dsg its even harder on them. I would go for the 14:1 for a dsg build to really let that motor get into its preferred rpms.

    You could just do the 10:1 ssg and probably enjoy it, those can hit like 45rps (with .28) if you short stroke a few teeth, I took 2 off the pickup side and 1 off the release for the most ideal timing for the seigetek gearset version.

    The dsgs tho, when it comes to going over 55rps, brushed motors start to burn out their comm long before the brushes wear out. Hence the warhead brushless motor being a new option for really high speed dsgs.

    Also stay away from retro arms shells.

    Edit:also someone snapped the axle off of one of this brushless motors right where the pinion is awhile back trying to push it extremely hard. Which is crazy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
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  4. Stab70

    Stab70 New Member

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    Eureka
    I would like to see that comment substantiated.

    "... it has more torque than any brushed motor..."

    As of late...there are a lot of items being sold on hype over actual fact.

    I don't doubt that the motor is capable...but for 200.00...well...that is more than may AEG's...so they better be able to prove it.

    FYI...your AEG is running far above safety standards for use on other "players", unless you are a DMR platform.


    I would like to know as well, because if it cannot push the heavy spring, I need to figure out another option.
    As for price, I have the budget for so why not get the good parts? I am interested to see if it works, but I was hoping to not need a new motor after $600-ish in parts for the new gearbox, gears, mosfet, and air system lol.
    As for safety, we play in the woods so this is actually tuned down. I am about 30fps under max with .28s, and we dont full auto within 25 feet. Plus, we are all friends so we arent trying to hurt anyone.
     
  5. Stab70

    Stab70 New Member

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    Eureka
    @Ben3721

    Wow thats amazing to hear. I was considering the 14:1's but I hate waiting for stock to come in...they were sold out ugh. I definitely dont want to destroy this motor, and tbh, I just want the crazy rps for shock value. I rarely use full auto.

    So, if retro arms box sucks, what do you recommend? Lonex? They are always sold out as well, unless you can point me towards a good supplier?
     
  6. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    Lonex is a nice shell, but right now hard to get, I'd work with what you have until you have more options, just make sure you radius the shell. But yeah retro arms shells have their gear bearing/bushing holes off spec, causing all sorts of issues. Unfortunately they are hyped as the best, would be nice if they actually lived up to that. I'll actually be testing a gelsoft shell soon to see if its better than retro arms, if it is ill let people know on the forum and social media. There's a bunch of products slowly working its way from that hobby to airsoft.

    A lot of public outdoor places allow short bursts of full auto, binary and all kinds of stuff so having a high rps to compete against hpa rigs set to like 50-70rps is sometimes nice.

    Another thing, the seigetek gearsets that don't have a anti reversal latch segment on the bevels tend to be more violent on the anti reversal latch, slamming the latch spring against the shell causing it to break at the 90° bends, a little cutout in the arl where the spring rests can offload this shock preventing failure. Some shells don't have this issue due to the design of where the arl hits. But you'll know if your affected quite quickly.

    Where are you located? There should be some seigeteks 14:1 9 tooth dsgs somewhere new. The last two generations are both pretty good, slightly different, last I checked one has a different coating and slightly different tappet cams from different machining. The coatings however are a joke in this hobby. It always wears off no matter what grease you use, even if you relubed every 30k rounds like I do. Darn gears just spin so fast and hard it just presses it out and throws it off. Especially builds like this.

    Edit: Never noticed this till now. But it seems the 14:1 and 10:1 seigetek gearsets come with only 8 teeth, no 9 tooth versions. Maybe I'm wrong but I couldn't find anything else.

    This gearset has the latest coating and latest bevels that actually have arl cutouts.
    https://www.redwolfairsoft.com/sieg...gear-set-for-v2-v3-gearbox-ratio-14-09-1.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  7. Stab70

    Stab70 New Member

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    Eureka
    @Ben3721

    I had heard that about retro but I had forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.
    My current gear box has been holding up good, but I'm not sure about this new project. It's a cyma platinum box that has been slightly modified for a Perun Hybrid. Maybe just having any backup box would be better than nothing?
    I found the 9 tooth dsg, but again I'm pretty concerned about having a heavy spring in this box.
    Anyway, thanks for the tip on the arl. That would have upset me lol
     
  8. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I broke like 3 arl springs before I looked into why. Kinda annoying.

    As long as the radius is properly done, meaning no thin edges in the radius it should be fine. If you can get your hands on real sorbo pads, that also helps.

    I ran a shell for about 130k rounds like yours before the rails on the shell started thinning out everywhere. Never cracked it at all.
     
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  9. Francisco Beca

    Francisco Beca New Member

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    Menlo Park
    What else have you done? Super light piston?

    I am planning to test that 36K motor with a 16:1 gearset an a m125/m135 spring but a bit afraid ROF is too high since I've heard gate titan's ROF control is a no-no with the warhead motor...Any advice here?
     
  10. Stab70

    Stab70 New Member

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    Eureka
    I have done everything. AOE, tappet and spring, m130 spring, perun hybrid mosfet, piston head, cylinder, cylinder head, nossle, hop up, inner barrel, r-hop, 5200 mah 75c 11.1v lipo.

    I don't know anything about the titan tho
     
  11. Francisco Beca

    Francisco Beca New Member

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    Menlo Park
    I see you are using a Perun...I do like the trigger response you get from an SSG at 3-5+ rps set-up but would like to cap it to something like 18-24...and the gate titan's ROF control does not work with the warhead.
     
  12. Stab70

    Stab70 New Member

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    Eureka
    Oh that's right. Same with the Perun rof control. You can set the response so sensitive that you can easily semi 24 rps. Add an adjustable trigger and cant it just before engagement for that extra gaurentee. It's the boss. Plus, you can program it on the fly. Want 3 round burst? 15 seconds to change it. 5 round burst? Binary trigger? 2 stage trigger? No prob. All in the flick of a switch