9.6v recommendations?

Discussion in 'Arizona Airsoft Forum' started by kevin donelly, May 18, 2018.

  1. kevin donelly

    kevin donelly Member

    63
    4
    phoenix
    Looking for 9.6v butterfly recommendations. Im using a matrix and a tenergy, the tenergy is noticeably better then the matrix. I’ve been told the tenergy isn’t the greatest battery so does anybody know of a battery better then a tenergy? I’ve seen the lancer and the venom batteries but I’m not sure which is better and if they will make a noticeable difference. Also sense we are on the topic. Is there a point in swapping out my connectors for deans?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  2. Wh33ler

    Wh33ler Active Member

    386
    147
    Denton
    The only recommendation I have is toss those 9.6V batteries in the recycle bin and make the jump to lipo. Even at 7.4V, you'll see noticeable improvements because the power is pretty much linear and doesn't drop off until the charge is near the minimum. Tenergy lipos are decent. Venom lipos are decent. I have a couple of them that I use for RC crawlers, etc. and honestly the only thing I can tell you about them is they're expensive. They don't really perform any better than any other battery on the market. Any performance gains at are would be very nominal at best. If you want good batteries that won't break the bank, go to hobbyking.com and look at Turnigy batteries. Or if you want something from the US, GensAce makes great batteries, too. Of course making the transition to lipo, you'll need a charger that can charge them unless of course the one you have charges both NiMH and LiPo packs. Otherwise, get a smart lipo charger that has a separate balance port. You don't want one of those crappy chargers that charger the battery through the balance plug because it charges much slower and you're not balancing the cells properly, which will lead to inconsistent power and ultimately less battery life. I've been using a Racer's Edge charger for about 6-7 years now and it does everything I need it to do. And it's got separate balance ports for 2-cell and 3-cell packs. And charge rates of 1A, 2A, 3A and 5A.

    https://www.rchobbyexplosion.com/SureCharge_1500_5_Amp_AC_Balance_Charger_p/rcesc1500.htm

    As for swapping out connectors to deans, most people will tell you to do it because you get a more consistent connection, which would translate into better performance. Honestly, though, the only reason to change to Deans connectors is ease of use. Performance gains again are nominal and you likely wouldn't even notice them unless you're building some super rifle and it's the last thing you can do to pull every bit of power out of your gun that you can. Otherwise, they're just a little easier to use than the standard Tamiya/mini Tamiya connectors. For me personally, I'm not great at soldering, especially Deans connectors, so I've just stuck with my Tamiyas and they've worked just fine. Now for RC purposes, for my 1/10th scale stuff, I switched to Deans because they're easier to manipulate when you're trying to disconnect them without having to remove bodies, etc. But for everything smaller (1/18th & 1/24th) I use either EC3 or JST for the smaller stuff. And again it's simply for ease of use. I know I went off on a bit of a tangent, but I hope this helps with your decision(s).
     
    Doc_Larsen and link0 like this.

  3. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Active Member

    524
    176
    7.4v LiPo's match/beat a 8.4v anyday

    A GOOD 7.4v 2000mah 30c & above will match a 9.6v for performance
    (most 7.4v's will come very close to a 9.6v)

    Deans on their own will only give a marginal increase of 10 to 12% rof max
    If your wiring has a lot of resistance/breaks using cartridge fuse etc....
    then you will only see about half of that say 5-6% increase in rof in a STOCK GUN

    As stock guns come in about say 12-13rps aprox on unless you go 11.1v
    you will not notice a massive difference even if 10-12% increase in rof 1 or 1.5rps

    Or about half a round per second if stock wiring is being choked or 18awg

    HOWEVER - if you perform further upgrades THEN tamiya WILL be holding you back
    gun tries to draw more current or amps but the choke/resistance points restrict you

    The other option if not wishing to use 11.1v is to consider modern 9.9v LiFe batteries
    yes they provide a nice bridge between 7.4v & 11.1v LiPo's
    LiFe's also can be recharged more, are supposed to be slightly safer
    and maybe not so easily damaged if they run a bit low perhaps like LiPo's

    LiFe's do "seem" to offer a bit more zest than 7.4v LiPo's in STOCK GUNS
    BUT - in a tweaked gun it appeared to me they lacked the exact same raw grunt
    For some reason when I used a 9.9v LiFe in a tweaked gun it was no real difference ???
    The difference between the GOOD 7.4v LiPo & 9.9v LiFe was virtually non-existent ???
    My own theory is that LiFe's though different to LiPo seem to lack the true raw grunt

    That is my findings, I'd say LiFe's are the be all & end all if I found this to be true
    BUT - I did not, so therefore I stick with LiPo & deans myself

    By all means look into LiFe 3 cells at 9.9v if you wish
    (still better than 9.6v nimah imho)
    BUT be aware the range/size/capacity & just general choices are much more limited
    So a LiFe battery will likely cost more and may only have a few options of choices
    Also you MUST ensure you charge LiFe's with LiFe settings
    each cell is 3.3v & charged to a max of 3.8v
    DO NOT USE LIPO SETTINGS 3.7v CHARGED TO 4.2v MAX - YOU WILL DAMAGE LIFE's
    So alter the settings in your B6 charger or some B3 chargers have a LiFe balance port

    Personally try get a 2000mah 30c 7.4v & fit deans if you can solder
    (review wiring & rewire if you tweak your gun)
    Or if your gun is using a torquey motor and rps isn't already very snappy - use 11.1v
    (as long as you are OK for avoiding PME)
     
    kevin donelly and Wh33ler like this.
  4. Wh33ler

    Wh33ler Active Member

    386
    147
    Denton
    If you really want a better battery and your internals can handle it, just make the jump to 11.1V lipo and be done with it. That's what I run in my Krytac Trident CRB MKII and so far (knock on wood) no issues. And I'm shooting damn close to 20 rps....probably 18-19. Not going to get much better than that in an AEG without heavy modification.
     
    Sitting_Duck likes this.
  5. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Active Member

    524
    176
    Agreed, approaching or just moving into the twenties is plenty I often say

    Shooting stock 10 to 13 rps & spamming semi often can release trigger early
    then you get a lockup if COL still raised & trigger stuck in dead zone
    (back to auto, fire & try semi again etc.....)

    Around the twenty mark the risk of bad trigger discipline seems to fade
    and most often the gun completes the semi cycle with a moderate brisk trigger pull
    (really slow guns I release the trigger that bit too early at times - damn it)

    You might have the 20k motor but that is fine, most likely drawing less amps than 30k
    so battery lasts a bit longer without going nutz
    I've broke quite a few guns pushing it - so settle for twenties is plenty now tbh
     
  6. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member

    1,065
    491
    Minneapolis
    If you have to get a NIMH pack, the only Good option now are packs made with "intellect" cells. Regardless of the rebrander that pretends to market the good stuff.
     
    kevin donelly likes this.
  7. link0

    link0 Active Member

    275
    185
    San Jose
    Nimh batteries are completely obsolete these days and there is no reason to run them at all. Lipo batteries are the same price or cheaper, but provide more stable/consistent power until drained.

    I prefer 7.4v Li-po, which are completely safe for any gun without a MOSFET.
     
    BOA_SP3CT3R likes this.
  8. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    2,123
    526
    Martinsburg
    The best 9.6v battery pack I'm aware of is a 7.4v lipo.
     
  9. kevin donelly

    kevin donelly Member

    63
    4
    phoenix
    Thanks for the info everyone. I’ll put in a mosfet and run a 11.1. Does the nukefet have a battery safety function? So I don’t kill my battery.
     
    -Spitfire- likes this.
  10. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    2,123
    526
    Martinsburg
    Honestly you don't need to worry about a battery safety function [only the more expensive mosfets have that... the nukefet is more focused on durability]. As long as you stop firing and switch your battery whenever the ROF drops noticeably you'll be fine.
     
  11. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Active Member

    524
    176
    Think the biggest risk is when soldering deans on LiPo's
    NEVER cut both wires together on batteries - yeah this should be obvious
    but a LiPo short by bridging them wires with cutters will require a change of shorts....



    honestly - Lipo "shorts" will make you soil your own
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018 at 7:46 AM
    kevin donelly likes this.
  12. drivenbykarma

    drivenbykarma Active Member Supporting Member

    231
    32
    black canyon city...formerly Prescott
    what is a 9.6? is that what guns used to run on?...I dunno it may be the "balls to the wall" in me,or that i just started late in the game.But im like 6 years deep now,and only thing i've ever run in any of my guns is an 11.1 until i got my p* and my first 7.4.(lol)

    As far as i understand it,and i've done my fair ammount of R&D to attempt to.
    Any gun is able to use a 11.1 or is AKA Lipo ready. and can be used for a long time with a lipo and without any ill effects(per say) ..But it can wear out the contacts quicker than if using a lower powered battery,but even "safer" batteries still wear out the contacts,its inevitable,its a wear an tear item.So now that you understand you'll eventually have to replace it,you can jus enjoy the piss out of the increased performance till the contacts die.Or you can install insurance,right off the bat (and hope that if it does fail it fails before the warranty expires),or wait to purchase it as an upgrade once your stock ones die. but even trigger contacts with fetts can and will eventually die,and even fetts arn't bullet proof. I've got several from many brands that have just randomly died on me for no apparent reason. Yes i only use 11.1's but the point of their purchase is so that one could. and it's not the gun that's actually died,nor the trigger contacts, i can think of about 7 different guns offhand right now that i've gotten as broken,only to go cut out the fett,attach deans and carry on with my asskicking with a new gun who'll probably live to see many rounds fired and live a nice long life,while using 11.1's and without a fett... So just saying don't be afraid to use 11.1's . Unless your using a cheaper made gun,with less quality internals which would lead to a 11.1 burning them up quicker.But if their cheaply made your going to burn them up quicker regardless. so might as well enjoy the enhanced like up to 10rps better depending on the gun an it's build.
     
  13. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Active Member

    524
    176
    it is not just the volts but the amps or current being drawn that causes the arcing

    if you have moved onto polarstar/hpa then likely you are using a Mac valve
    which is nothing like the draw from a brushed motor and & no spike either
    (hence reason for diodes to stop/reduce spikes either TVS/Schottky)

    Now before you quote the Mac valve used is 33amp spec....

    take a good look at the wires to the valve - not quite 14awg

    [​IMG]

    it is a 5v solenoid with 4.7w so the amp draw is less that 1 amp
    or Volts x Amps = Watts making the solenoid 0.94 amps

    So there is an enormous difference in the draw from a Mac valve to say SHS HT
    plus the drive chain - gearing/spring/fps can take AEG draw from say 10 amp stock
    to 20 amp 30 amp or higher on insane builds with very fast demanding motors

    Yes everything will wear eventually - even Mac valves

    Stock guns drawing say 10 amps will be ok for a while on 11.1v
    but higher current in a tweaked gun will not last so well

    it isn't so much the volts but the amps that ramps up the arcing factor
     
    link0 likes this.
  14. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member

    1,065
    491
    Minneapolis
    9.6V is a 8 cell NICD/NIMH Battery. Each cell gives you a minimum rating of 1.2V per cell. This is an "enhanced" pack in the day (14 years ago), under load (15A) it gave on average about 8.2V of power and that tapered down as the battery drained. Some were higher and many more were lower (Tenergy).

    The standard back then was a 7 cell pack, also know as an 8.4V pack. The myth that a LIPO shredded AEG's was born from what a 3S pack did to a TM in rather short order in stock form (PE and then the subsequent formation of "chiclets" in the mechbox because all the teeth on the spur gear was shredded off and loose inside the mechbox is the history of why a LIPO will destroy the AEG.

    But, if one ran a 2S it would last a very long time.

    And this is due to the voltage. As mentioned above all AEG's are LIPO, NIMH, NICD, NIZN, LIFE, PB, Alkaline, LION and Lemon "ready" if the voltage is around ~8.1V under load. The chemistry makes no difference...
     
    Lefse and -Spitfire- like this.
  15. link0

    link0 Active Member

    275
    185
    San Jose
    I've done this. Felt like an idiot afterwards.
     
  16. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    2,123
    526
    Martinsburg
    Same. Except I was using a knife, and melted the blade. That was fun.
     
  17. cetane

    cetane Active Member

    491
    97
    Markham & Stouffville, Ontario, Canada
    I’ve done similar, not on batteries though. At work, the equipment I work on run on 75vdc engine running (64vdc battery) I turned off a lighting breaker to change out a part, which had a light (burnt out I didn’t know) so I saw it was off, grabbed my linesman pliers and snipped the #14/2 cord off... my pliers melted good before the 30a breaker it was tapped to tripped... I was not impressed with that lol
     
    BOA_SP3CT3R and -Spitfire- like this.
  18. link0

    link0 Active Member

    275
    185
    San Jose
    Wowwwww. Luckily I was cutting a 7.4v instead of a 11.1. I'm glad I didn't damage my wire cutter.
     
    -Spitfire- and Sitting_Duck like this.
  19. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Active Member

    524
    176
    Got two mini MIG spot welds dots on my cutters....
    but can't for life of me work out how that happened
    :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
    -Spitfire- and link0 like this.
  20. drivenbykarma

    drivenbykarma Active Member Supporting Member

    231
    32
    black canyon city...formerly Prescott
    lol im sorry..there was heavy sarcasm in the 9.6 comment. I know what they are,i was just being funny about "who uses those anymore" sorta thing.