Featured Advice on upgrading cyma Thompson!

Discussion in 'Beginners Forum' started by Tommy45, May 14, 2021.

  1. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    Hi everyone, first post :D
    I´m getting back to playing airsoft after some time off and I´ve been spending all my spare time searching around airsoft info regarding my weapon of choise, the Thompson m1a1.
    My plan is to get the Cyma CM.033 and throw an extra 150$ to, mainly, reinforce it / make it a reliable replica, with a quicker trigger response and a bit more ROF.

    Most upgrades I´ve seen swap every component but I rather not do that, only if necessary.
    I´m still a bit overwelmed with info and compatibilities with the v.6 Gearbox.

    - 2S 2100mAh lipo, 20 or 30C? with Xt-60 / Deans
    - High speed motor? Lonex A1? (V.6 uses short type)
    - Should I swap the gears for a 13:1 ones or slower? Or leave the stock ones?
    - Aluminum head piston with a better air seal and maybe downgrade spring? (350FPS needed)
    - Metal bushings
    - Mosfet

    What would you guys do to this gun with this budget?
    Thanks
     
  2. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I think you should do nothing until you play with it using your battery of choice. Making changes to an untested AEG is not ideal for many of your items may already be in the AEG. And you have some misconceptions of some of the components.

    - 2S 2100mAh lipo, 20 or 30C? with Xt-60 / Deans

    The Higher the C the better, but the XT-60 connector is over kill and use of this connector means you can't use another battery in a pinch.

    - High speed motor? Lonex A1? (V.6 uses short type)

    Lonex motors are over price and dated. No one uses these motors for there are faster or comparable for less.

    - Should I swap the gears for a 13:1 ones or slower? Or leave the stock ones?

    At this point leave stock gears in.

    You can hit 25rps with a motor swap and use a 2S LIPO, like this. Go to 2 minute mark:



    18:1 45K motor on a 2S 2600mah MINI sized LIPO at 25C > 25rps at 393fps.

    - Aluminum head piston with a better air seal and maybe downgrade spring? (350FPS needed)

    Change nothing until you Chrono.

    - Metal bushings

    It may already have this.

    - Mosfet

    Not needed on a 2S LIPO.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
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  3. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    Hi there,
    Alright, so, more enfases on higher discharge battery and better motor = more instant torque = trigger response. Makes sense attending to that first.

    Swaping for a motor like the one used in the video, I assume that one is pretty fast, raises a few concernes.
    If everything else is left stock (except the nylon bushings witch btw are used in cyma and marui) is it safe for piston and gears? I heard many people had problems with this gun stock within the first few months, that´s part of the reason I wanted to upgrade it / make it reliable.

    Mosfet not needed? Interesting. Do you mean I have the same initial current spike both on a fisical and electronic switch at 2S? Or there is a difference but is negligeble?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2021
  4. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Motor in video is a Tienly 45K HS Motor

    Are you sure the bushings are nylon?

    Safe for the piston and gears, are you asking why wouldn't a 2S LIPO be safe in a stock AEG?

    AEG's are made in batches. What happed to someone 1 year ago means absolutely nothing. The one you buy today may be different from those having issues a year ago. There are those that cite old issues as a consistent issue, this is a False summation That is why you need to play a lot of games with your AEG before you mod it.

    Think of it as a car, do you buy a new one and immediately rip out parts and put in other ones? No, you drive it for a few thousand miles and make adjustments for your driving needs.

    Putting new parts in your AEG does not mean it will be reliable. First off, who is doing the work and do they have a deep understanding of the mechbox? Did you know that 90% of the "upgrade gears" are just stock gears sold at 20X cost (as an upgrade part) with little to any improvement over stock parts?

    The start up spike is not going to significantly wear your contact parts that quickly in a 2S cell. It's a semi-nice to have. not a need to have in a 2S equipped AEG.

    Heck, I used to loan out TM MP5A5 as movie props. One night they dry fired three of them for 7 battery sets each (granted back then a 600AE NICD was the pack of choice). That was roughly 19,000 dry pops each...first AEG chipped a spur gear tooth in this batch, 5 years later.

    There were no electrical issues at all and TM MP5 A5 never had a MOSFET of any sort.
     
  5. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    Unless this new batche comes upgraded, they have nylon bushings.

    My concern isn´t really the 2s lipo, I´m asking if a stronger - faster motor like that one will chew away the internals faster such as the piston´s teeth for e.g.

    Ok I see what you mean. Although I understand and apreciate the wisdom you shared, I agree to a certain extent.
    In your analogy, you are just buying a new car. But regarding the thompson, I´m swaping the motor. If you swap a car engine for a new one with twice the power, why wouldn´t you reinforce others parts of the car so you can prevent premature material fatigue? And if I plan to add the metal bushings and reshim, I might aswell take the oportunity to, for e.g., swap the piston.
    Now, wich mechanic I´ll take my car to? Surely thats an important aspect but a whole new topic.

    About your MP5´s, wow thats cool story. Why did they had to dry fire the replicas insted of adding sound afects??o_O

    Good to know about the mosfet, (and gears) you saved me alot of time and cash :D
     
  6. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    A faster motor just cycles the gun more quickly, does it wear faster, in a way yes. It wears faster due to the cycles and not based on stress, because the spring is the same. Your motor analogy isn't quite right because the power doesn't come from the motor, it come from the spring.

    if your AEG is for an example rated for 100,000 shots under the stock spring. Changing the motor to a faster one means you will get to the 100,000 cycle limit faster, but it's still 100K cycles.

    Now if you increase the stress on the "whole" system by putting in a stronger spring, then you will reduce the cycles to say a hypothetical 80,000 cycles.

    Can you change parts to bump it back to 100,000 cycles...sure...but will you know which part to change before hand? You could guess....or you can run it out and then, tune it to your play style.

    The movie that was made was called "Timeless", it was a pilot that was to hopefully garner more funding for the whole production. So, they shot a few scenes and renting a real MP5 with blanks was extremely expensive, so they used early filming tricks to simulate the Airsoft MP5 firing.

    They dubbed over the POP-POP-POP post filming, but during filming, they simulated muzzle flash with a yellow light and a mirror beneath the "shooter". They shifted the mirror quickly under the light to simulate the flash of the muzzle that was off camera. Quite inventive for 1990s filming with no CG.
     
  7. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    Ok, yeah the spring is like a power limiter seems to me, I didn´t remeber that detail, so the new motor and battery will just add more torque right?
    I built an e-bike using a 1000W motor running with 52V (13S) at 20A. Then upgraded to a 14S battery, shunt modded the controller to 45A. What a diference! With just the new battery I got more top speed, but with more amps I got double the acceleration. Over 2500W :cool:

    "If your AEG is for an example rated for 100,000 shots under the stock spring. Changing the motor to a faster one means you will get to the 100,000 cycle limit faster, but it's still 100K cycles.
    Now if you increase the stress on the "whole" system by putting in a stronger spring, then you will reduce the cycles to say a hypothetical 80,000 cycles."

    Yeah makes sense!

    I´m curious how it turned out after editing, need to check out that movie! I didn´t even know airsoft even existed in the 90´s! lol

    Going back to the motor, If it was your replica, would you choose that particular motor the Tienly 45K HS Motor? If so, what C rating along with it?
     
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  8. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    It's the only HS Neo motor on the market with a rating of 45K. The battery was a 48A 2S pack.

    The first AEG to come out and revolutionize the Industry was in 1991. History is rather interesting for Airsoft.
     
  9. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    48A is just a bit more than a 20C 2100mAh lipo. So, will a 30C 2100mah (63A) be to much?
     
  10. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    That's the thing...electricity is not a Push system. It's a Draw system.

    Your house is hooked up to a 110A line, but nothing in your house is exploding in a ball of fire. If there is no short, a device will only draw what it needs for it's design parameters.

    Here is a video from 6 years ago on a mechbox on a battery simulator.



    Regardless of voltage...it draws 15A
     
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  11. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    I had the notion that motors were current hungry, thanks for the video.

    I have a "VAT1100" that I use on my e-bike, awesome Ammeter, goes to 100A, it will be interesting to do some testing when its all set.

    Did some research on that motor, cant find any A draw info but seems to be a work horse, medium torque but high speed but does it only exist in long type format? This cyma takes short type motors.
     
  12. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    15A is not abnormal for a 400fps AEG. Most hit that range pulling the same tension against a spring.

    Tienly 45K short? I have never seen one, but doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    I can ask to see if they do...

    Here is a link to a POST from 11 years ago. I had a Airsoft Dyno back then and I took readings from motors back then with no load at 9V.

    You get some interesting numbers that support the basis that TPA alone means nothing.

    http://forum.mnairsoft.org/viewtopic.php?t=28181
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  13. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    Ok, so I supose at 350fps the current draw will be lower than 15...

    Please. Cant find that model in short type.

    I must do a research on motors to better understand those readings. Would you say this one has a good trigger response despite having lower TPA? Its a 100$ investment, so making sure its the right one
     
  14. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    If you are paying 100.00 for a Tienly, you are paying too much. I sell them for 68.00 shipped for the middle models and 72.00 for the 50K's

    Good trigger response is highly subjective, IMHO...it's responsive with 18:1 and any gearset faster than that will make it more responsive.
     
  15. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    I'm from Portugal, in the EU. You sell international?

    Got it. Being less torqui perhaps is more effecient with slower gears?
     
  16. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I can ship INTL. I shipped several of those Motors to Norway.
     
  17. Tommy45

    Tommy45 New Member

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    In that case I' will pm you.