AEG Motor Question.

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Jimps, Nov 22, 2020.

  1. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    I'm using a 22k 22TPA motor on 12:1 SS 3 teeth with Gate Titan. I only use Semi-Auto and build around trigger response. I have a second gun with 13:1 SS 3 teeth with gate titan. The motor specs in that gun is unknown. Its a Dytac stock motor. It's very similar to the 22TPA motor I have I swapped them around in guns and the Dytac motor is about 2ms slower on trigger response and very close maybe 1 RPS faster. The 13:1/Dytac has about 50ms TR. The 12:1/22TPA 22k has 34ms TR. I also tried a Stock VFC Avalon motor and it sounds like a wounded cat when used. Horrible motor. I spent hours messing with it. Don't know why it sounds so bad.

    I want to replace the Dytac motor, and use as a back up or in another gun later. Was thinking about getting the same motor. 22TPA one. Saw a 28TPA 18K motor. Would there be any advantage to the 28TPA motor? I know it would be slower RPS, but I'm not concerned about RPS. Would the TR be better, If so would it be noticeable from the 22TPA motor? Would it run cooler? I'm only pulling an M120. Was also thinking about getting the EMG/RetroArms gear box shell for a DSG build. Would it be suitable for that with an m160/170?
     
  2. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Motors is not all about TPA. That is like buying a car strictly on Cylinders. We all know some 4 Cylinder Cars has more HP than 8 Cylinder cars.

    While it's a viable guideline, the maker of the motor adds additional variables to discern one motor from another, thus naming the maker adds additional information that would be helpful.
     
    wetpee and Sitting_Duck like this.

  3. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    As said there are motors & there are motors...

    Just coz a motor is 28tpa - doesn't mean it will pull a DSG well
    (especially if weak stock ferrite magnets inside)
    You really need to ensure strong neodym magnets (usually silver) inside

    TPA is only a guide, the wire thickness can vary loads
    (why some "similar" spec motors perform better/worse than others
    plus the overall precision of how they are built/assembled
    (Tienly, Systema are some precisely assembled motors
    where as std stock motors are just slapped together in a sweat shop)

    A rule of thumb is higher tpa, usually means more torque at expense on lower rpm
    plus also draws less amps/current in use and runs cooler - but always a trade off
    Yet despite all this poor weak magnets, badly assembled/shimmed
    will result in a poor choice & possible stalling when try to pull a pre-cocked DSG
    (or a pre-cocked SS SSG build if using a weak stock ferrite motor)

    Some stock motors will handle a m100~m105, with a bit of mild pre-cock
    But push it to say a m120~m130 and it will just have a habit of stalling on you
    (in its own way letting you know you made an unwise motor choice)

    Your Titan might give you the stats...
    But choosing the right motor for each build comes with experience...

    [​IMG]

    (I've made loads of poor judgements btw)
     
    wetpee likes this.
  4. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    Okay, I looked. The motor I have is the ASG motor, as well is the motor I saw. I could not remember and did not want to misspeak. They are not iron ferrite magnets, but neodymium. I would assume them being the same manufacture they would be easier to compare. So running cooler is appealing. So would the higher TPA in the same brand motor yield noticeable difference in trigger response? Has anyone used this in a DSG build. My shot counter on gate is 311,759 with my current motor, so it seems to be a fine motor in my experience. Was going to just buy the same motor again. Just want to know if there would be an advantage to the 28TPA and would that be better if I did build the DSG. I understand its 4k lower in RPM but don't care about RPS.
     
  5. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    Then an ASG 28k neodym will pull the DSG no problem
    it will provide loads of torque even precocked

    The DSG will have a much shorter stroke
    so the cycling will shorter but more work required
    (especially from still)

    but the motor is a wise choice in my opinion for a DSG
    if it was a stock ferrite though...

     
  6. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    And Neo's can vary too.

    N24-N52.

    Tienly uses them all for the 25K to the 45K
     
  7. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    I got a black n52 set of magnets
    (why I said neodym (usually silver))
    most are the silver n38~42 in $35 China motors

    wire gauge varies a fair bit
    though quite old, some similar tpa armatures use different swg
    https://pmakiku.pic.fi/blog/57/aeg-moottorit-yms/
    plus higher quality motors, the wire is soldered (with hi temp solder)
    rather than just crimped onto armature like on China motors

    so many factors effect the performance & efficiency of various motors
    yeah you can run DSG on 16tpa, but I'd personally go no lower than 22tpa
    & 28tpa would bring down the amp/heat draw (in general as a rough rule of thumb)
    all things being kinda equal that is (decent neo motor I mean)
     
  8. Splode

    Splode Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, brand makes a huge difference. My Tienly 40k seems to have more torque than many of the various so called "extreme high torque" motors from certain garbage brands.
    It's like batteries. You can't really go by what is printed on them. Especially airsoft brands which tend to lie about internals.
     
  9. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    Its not hard to take a motor apart. People have took apart motors and counted the amount of windings and the gage of the wire. Also its not hard to differentiate neo and ferrite. Sure they could lie about the motor but with social media, YouTube, forums... I'm in the stereo business. Manufactures put blatant lies about wattage on products all the time. I would say 95% of specs are flat out lies. 2000 WATTS!! It has a 30amp fuse.... SMH 30Ax14.4V is not even close to 2000. Just a little common sense and research can go a long way. China thinks Americans are idiots and believe anything they read. That's not untrue sadly. It works often and people believe it and buy it. Sales go up and the only way for honest companies to say in business is to do the same.
     
  10. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Social Media - Mostly people that know nothing who help each other on Airsoft. Any insight learned is lost and the cycle repeats the next week.

    Youtube - Influencers, bad...they know nothing and is paid to promote crap. Titan packs, EF1911...etc. Unboxing videos...need I say more?

    Forums is really the only way to go for historical data and archived info. It's sad ASP went down and took all that data with it from ~2001 to 2007...among other sites.
     
    Splode likes this.