Aluminum Vs Brass Vs Stainless

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by mnmetalhead1, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. mnmetalhead1

    mnmetalhead1 GBB FTW Supporting Member

    930
    0
    Hibbing
    I have a question for the more experienced techs and airsmiths out there. Im doing some tech work on a Classic Army M15a4 Seal and am currently working on the "upper" gearbox. I know that this gun had been to a tech with its previous owner and appears to have an aluminum aftermarket cylinder head in it. Im going to install a Systema M100 spring, Angel Custom Ported SS Cylinder, Matrix High Speed Piston, ASG Ultimate Silent Piston head, and a Brass Silent Cylinder Head. I was wondering if anyone, maybe Uller, had any experiance using both aluminum and brass cylinder heads and if brass dampened the blow and vibrations better than aluminum or stainless? I do plan to use a Sorbo pad as soon as i can get my parts in ill measure the needed thickness. Basically im looking for opinions and facts on the physics of brass vs aluminum vs stainless steel for cylinder heads and cylinders.
     
  2. S1kkguy

    S1kkguy New Member

    489
    2
    London
    The more dense or 'heavy duty' the metal is, the better it would be at dealing with piston impact. So I'd say brass or stainless steel is the way to go, though, personally I prefer brass.
     

  3. mnmetalhead1

    mnmetalhead1 GBB FTW Supporting Member

    930
    0
    Hibbing
    I understand that SS is probably the most durable of the choices, but im more concerned if there are benefits to using brass like harmonic dampening to increase accuracy.
     
  4. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    2
    Santa Barbara
    Don't worry about it. You will not see a difference in accuracy either way. Focus on your hop assembly more than your cylinder head. If you install Sorbo, you'll be fine regardless.

    Just an FYI, you have accumulated a fairly bad parts list.
     
  5. mnmetalhead1

    mnmetalhead1 GBB FTW Supporting Member

    930
    0
    Hibbing
    Ive already got the hop up and barrel finished. what would you have chosen instead?
     
  6. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    2
    Santa Barbara
    SHS or Lonex Piston.
    Forget about the silent PH/CH. Good luck using Sorbo effectively with those.
    Lonex POM P Head
    I like Brass Cylinders. SS is alright, Brass is better, just don't go Aluminum.

    Edit: And if possible, I'd get a larger spring and SS to your desired FPS. Might not be possible for your build though, so that choice is up to you. Don't try and push your ROF too high with an M100 though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  7. Ehudakineyah

    Ehudakineyah New Member

    2,510
    0
    Mililani
    Agreed lol :)

    I only suggest using silent piston heads and cylinder heads if you have them already.

    You can do the same by going with softer sorbo. Lighter spring. Good shim job. Stock or high speed motors. Yadiyada lol xD
     
  8. mnmetalhead1

    mnmetalhead1 GBB FTW Supporting Member

    930
    0
    Hibbing
    Thought about SHS but this marix one gets surprisingly good reviews so i thought id see what all the fuss is about, and i have both silent and standard heads. So if it turns out to be a POS than i can always switch back since i am keeping my Aluminum Piston head and i have a few different cylinder heads to choose from. the problem with the Lonex piston on Hivemind is that i cant stand to put pistons with Nylon teeth in any gearbox i build. Every gearbox i tear down that always seems to be the first problem.

    Its already got an amazing shim job and I plan to put in a Classic Army High Torque till i get a new pinion on my G&P M120. As for softer sorbo theyre cheap so i might just order both 70 and 40 hardness and see how they work.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  9. Archer627

    Archer627 Active Member

    6,174
    6
    Figgington
    Eh, those motors aren't very good IMO. Just get a Lonex motor and be done with it. Hell, an element high Torque, AMP high torque, or JG red/blue would be great.

    Nylon teethed pistons are just fine. As long as they have a metal release tooth, that is. They're great in high speed builds too due to the lack of metal teeth. I have multiple guns that have nylon teethed pistons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  10. Ehudakineyah

    Ehudakineyah New Member

    2,510
    0
    Mililani
    Agreed again lol :) if you plan on using a 11.1v LiPo I strongly suggest not using a G&P M120 motor lol.
     
  11. Archer627

    Archer627 Active Member

    6,174
    6
    Figgington
    Lol. Check out my edit:p.
     
  12. mnmetalhead1

    mnmetalhead1 GBB FTW Supporting Member

    930
    0
    Hibbing
    No, 7.4v and personaly i like the M120, it gives a good rate of fire and i got it in a trade so i didnt pay full price on it. I know Nylon teeth will hold up... for awhile. I just cant stand to know i could have used a stronger material for the teeth. Like i said it seems like that always the first thing to go bad are the plastic teeth.

    Why would i use a High Torque in a M100 build anyways?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  13. Ehudakineyah

    Ehudakineyah New Member

    2,510
    0
    Mililani
    If you're using a 7.4v LiPo, just make sure the amp discharge doesn't go past 60 amps. You might see some problems in a month or so if it is.

    Nylon teeth are fine if you're not going for a super crazy rate of fire. Keep it under 25 bps, and it should be fine. Even with some bad AOE lol.
     
  14. mnmetalhead1

    mnmetalhead1 GBB FTW Supporting Member

    930
    0
    Hibbing
    Ill hook up my fluke an check the current draw but i highly doubt itll be that high, i would imagine that ill smoke the wires or kill the motor before i reach 60 amps. I dont plan on going that high of a ROF. Either way ill stick to my metal toothed pistons.

    Back to the original question, Brass over steel why? I say vibration dampening but im just seeing if there are other reasons.
     
  15. Ehudakineyah

    Ehudakineyah New Member

    2,510
    0
    Mililani
    I guess it just depends what it's being used for.

    Aluminum would be the light weight but durable alternative.
    Stainless is probably the most rigid and has better heat dissipation? (Don't quote me)
    Brass, cheap, durable, and dissipates heat as well. Maybe not as strong as stainless?

    Sorry. Off the top of my head lol. Maybe someone else can be more.... Detailed.

    And don't quote me on anything again lol.
     
  16. mnmetalhead1

    mnmetalhead1 GBB FTW Supporting Member

    930
    0
    Hibbing
    No your pretty spot on. aluminum is light weight altho not that durable compared to SS and i know Steel is stronger and will last longer, and Brass being more dense SHOULD be a better damper to vibrations. Im just curious as to peoples recommendations based on either experience or theories based on the properties of those metals. I supose Mystery was right, a sorbo will soak up most of the impact, but im interested anyways.
     
  17. Ehudakineyah

    Ehudakineyah New Member

    2,510
    0
    Mililani
    I would just get something more durable and heat resistant. And dissipates heat as well.

    After long long durations of firing on full auto. The gearbox and cylinder will get hot.

    So I guess something in the line of that matter lol. And stainless looks good too ;) wink wink lol haha Jk Jk xD don't take that seriously
     
  18. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    2
    Santa Barbara
    G&P m120 motors are terrible. Run it if you want, but it won't be an efficient set up which will cause excess heat build up. It won't be terrible on a m100 7.4, but it will still be there.

    The matrix piston is a rebranded Super Shooter. They're inferior to SHS 15T Pistons, and even more so to Lonex Reds.

    Aluminum/Silent Piston Head on an M100 build? Bad idea.

    If you're dead set on the M100 then go with a SHS 15t as Lonex Reds are about 5g heavier stock.

    I choose brass Cyl's over any other material because they retain lube better than other metals. SS does fairly well, but Aluminum is absolutely terrible.


    Don't forget that 95% of reviews written on Airsoft products we're written by 10yr olds that think it's the greatest thing in the world because it's what they have...