Bullpup Warfare (L85 vs TAR21 vs )

Discussion in 'What Gun Should I Get?' started by socialpoison, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. socialpoison

    socialpoison New Member

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    Elkhart
    Hey all,

    I'm trying to decide between bullpup variants for my next weapon. I'm focusing on the L85A1 and the Tavor, but am not against discussing other bullpup options.

    What do you suggest?

    What is your favorite bullpup design and why?

    Are any stock parts notorious for issues or needing upgrades/replacements?

    How much do the proprietary parts get in the way of customization?

    I'm new to airsoft tech so I wont be offended if you ELI5. :confused:

    Budget: $500

    System : AEG (Would like to keep HPA conversion in mind but not sure if it's worth it)

    Gun Type : Bullpup

    Play Style : CQB
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  2. Wingman703

    Wingman703 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Both the ICS and ARMY L85's are fantastic. The split gearbox design makes it extremely easy to work on, and(at least the ARMY) they have few completely proprietary parts. With some internal/external work, these things can become absolute monsters in both performance and looks.
    For CQB, you can chop the barrel down even farther till its basically the length of a pistol, and still have a 400mm barrel. IMHO, pistols are still the best way to go for CQB only however.

    Pic for bullpup glory, slightly outdated.
    [​IMG]
     

  3. Scallene

    Scallene Member

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    Olympia
    F2000 or p90 all the way. I have done extensive work on both and while both have issues with semi automatic that tends to be their only problem and if you fix that quickly they are great. Both are v6 and easy to work on but the f2000 has a proprietary cylinder head and tappet plate. The problem with the p90 though is the magazines... high speed is a no-go above 35-40 rps unless you are using a box mag. I got my f2000 to 73 rps and that thing is a cqb beast. v6 is pretty well supported. F2000 also has an adjustable spring guide that makes teching a dream.

    Bottom line: I recommend the G&G F2000 or the TM p90
     
  4. socialpoison

    socialpoison New Member

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    Elkhart
    @Wingman703
    The ICS L85 is probably what I'll end up going with but my buddy has an F2000 he wants to show me. I'm still open to debate. Also nice pic that thing looks sick. Side note is that a modded top rail? From what I've seen not many scopes fit on the L85 stock rail.

    @Scallene
    My buddy has an F2000 I'm going to check out. He highly recommends them as well. Although I'm not sure 73 rps is going to be welcomed with open arms at the park lol!
     
  5. Wingman703

    Wingman703 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I would agree with a guy above, the G&G F2000's are wonderful looking(never managed to get my hands on the internals). Stay FAR FAR away from the other brands of F2000's.


    Yes, its not a standard L85 rail. Its a CASV rail, ment for M4's, but it fits with minor modding, took me 5min with a dremel for a perfect fit, and is perfect for a slight 'boost' with all optics on the L85.
     
  6. BlackNightBravo

    BlackNightBravo Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I've never gotten a chance to tech on one but G&G is said to make the best F2000. Or the only one worth getting depending how you look at it.
     
  7. Kopis

    Kopis Active Member

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    With that budget you could totally get a WE l85. The thing looks sick and is one of the few bullpup GBBRs


    Buy my UBR, 60 +shipping CONUS
     
  8. Rushin

    Rushin Well-Known Member

    3,920
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    Kalamazoo

    The f2000 internals are fairly solid, takedown is godly though. The externals are great, it's probably bad for a DMR platform though, since the gearbox gets pulled out from the back, so air nozzle to bucking seal is pretty bad. I've also had the JLS F2000, and you'd have a better time burning that $160 or putting bamboo slivers under your fingernails.
     
  9. Kopis

    Kopis Active Member

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    The f2000 looks like a boat...


    Buy my UBR, 60 +shipping CONUS
     
  10. Rushin

    Rushin Well-Known Member

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    Kalamazoo

    And an M4 looks like trash.... :D
     
  11. Kopis

    Kopis Active Member

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    ImageUploadedByAirsoft Society1437245372.069695.jpg


    Buy my UBR, 60 +shipping CONUS
     
  12. Scallene

    Scallene Member

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    Olympia
    Yes the f2000 is the fish gun. The bucking to nozzle seal is surprisingly good actually because the gearbox is a tight fit with a rubber cushion. I wish all guns were that easy to tech on. Having owned the JLS F2000 I will say for certain you would be better off buying 160 dollars of mcdonalds. The selector switch is on the side, the plastic isnt awful, the actual selector switch is an on off switch and I never even shot it because I returned it instantly.
     

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  13. exyia

    exyia Member

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    Houston
    I'm a huge bullpup fan - anything M4/AR based bores me

    but it's starting to turn into Tavor fanboyism. The F2000 did not feel comfortable or maneuverable at all to me, just barely above a FAMAS. AUG was ok, but not a fan of the dual stage trigger. P90 I didn't mind, but the MP7 felt better if I wanted an SMG.

    I was really expecting to like the F2000 as my second bullpup. A friend had one at the respawn point as his extra and said I could run with it. I picked it up, got a feel for the gun, then left it at respawn. I was that unimpressed

    Never held an L85, but they don't look that maneuverable or compact feeling to me either

    Tavor all the way! (internal wise, there are no proprietary parts under stress)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Kopis

    Kopis Active Member

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    Tavors are so hot. Their front end needs to have accessories though.


    Buy my UBR, 60 +shipping CONUS
     
  15. echo1 vmg-74

    echo1 vmg-74 Active Member

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    Real Sword Type 97 or 97B. It's going to be the best built replica and most unique. I bought one and I'm impatiently waiting for it to arrive.


    I like the Tavor but I dislike bullpups with huge rear ends, like the F2000. Cool guns for sure but I wanted something smaller like the Type 97B.
     
  16. Wingman703

    Wingman703 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Stock L85's can be somewhat unwieldy- the barrel is just stupid long(510mm I think?), even for a bullpup. Chopping it down to a 400mm or so reduces it to the length of a long pistol, and with a rail, is SUPER balanced.

    I've always wanted to get into Tavor's, but not had the opportunity to do so yet, and the fact that some come with poly gearboxes, and some really, really bad metal gearboxes... yeah. Those front ends really do need work before they become pretty though.
     
  17. TheInfidel23

    TheInfidel23 Resident Derp Supporting Member

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    Greenville
    I have a full length L86, and prefer that to my tavor. The gearbox is simpler and easier to work on, and far less proprietary. In addition, the trigger system for the l86 is directly attached to the trigger, no linkage there.

    The l86 is also easier to wield and use, despite the longer length. The tavor feels like a sack of potatoes in comparison.

    They're both my favorite pieces tho,
    and I won't part with either. They both have ups and downs.
     
  18. Kopis

    Kopis Active Member

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    Ive been dying to get my hands on the GBBR Tavor.


    Buy my UBR, 60 +shipping CONUS
     
  19. socialpoison

    socialpoison New Member

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    Elkhart
    Hahaha @Kopis the F2000 does look like a boat, feels like one even more tho lol. It's a monster for pelting children but it was not as small or agile as I thought it was going to be. Still it had a tight spread and a high ROF. It was a G&G with a different spring and a holo. Very nice gun, just wasn't my style.

    I also got to shoot one of those crappy plastic tavors and boy was it baad.. Mag wouldn't stay put and the spread was a crap shoot. That being said the ergonomics really fit me, other than being light and a little wobbly it was a comfortable gun. If it would have been the full metal elite series I'm sure I would have a blast with it.

    After reading reviews, watching tha youtubez, having shot two of the guns, and hearing what the Airsoft Society had to say I've made my choice. I'm going to get the ICS Full Metal L85A2 AEG.


    My Reasons
    - ICS makes solid guns
    + L85A2 is stamped steel body with a quality polymer hand guard, grip, stock butt and cheek rest. Durable trigger contacts and a metal gearbox. ​
    - Easiest to take a part for maintenance and upgrades (only 2 body pins)
    - Easiest hop-up adjustments
    + Could adjust with gloves on mid firefight​
    - 3 Stage Adjustable FPS
    + Change FPS by pulling a pin and rotating the spring guide. That and if I wanted to change out the spring it's a piece of cake.​
    - Comes out of the box battle ready (No work needed or highly recommended before first game)
    - M4 Mag compatible
    - Tar 21 has more proprietary parts
    - Famas/F2000 just ain't my style (ergonomically)
    - No EBB Bs


    Future Upgrades
    - Large to Small Battery Adaptor
    - 9.6V Butterfly Battery
    - Swap out 19mm rail for 20mm rail
    - Red Dot/Holo


    Tips & Tricks
    - Don't pull the trigger very hard or ICS trigger mechs will break and lock up the semi-auto.


    Thanks for all the F2000 laughs and the bullpup advice! I'm still taking advice on what to do with the L85, the upgrades are just a few things I've come across thatll make the gun that much more fun.


    Is this mod just for balance? What else would a shorter barrel bring to the table? I thought the idea of the bullpup was to have a longer barrel in a shorter gun. Not poking just curious!


    I wasn't a fan of the dual stage either. I used a buddies and found myself full autoing people too close because my nerves would get the better of me. I also have an Mp7 already and P90's never stood out to me.


    Why would you take the GBBR over the AEG? My concerns are the small count mags that are hella expensive and leaks are annoying.
    Source of GBB pain: My MP7 is GBB and was sold with one semi-leaky mag.
     
  20. Wingman703

    Wingman703 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Some for balance, some for ease of use. Its still a long barrel- its a 407mm, in the size of a pistol. The rail was for personal use/eye candy, but also does balance it perfectly.