Calling all SL8/G36's variants techs. Need help with SL8 Sniper.

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by egotekkenh, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    Hello All. Hope all is well with you. As my post suggest I need help with my SL8 sniper. Not getting max fps with SHS M170. Getting a max of 520 fps with 0.20s. I tried two SHS m170 springs and 520 was the max. Not satisfied. I know I can achieve more with that spring.

    Can skip this part.
    I consider myself an average tech, so I'm not so 'ignant'. Was able to achieve 540 fps with 18:1 gears and m150 spring (I know of people who got more with that similar setup). I play at no limit fps outdoor games. I don't shoot when they are less than 50 feet away which is why I carry a secondary mp5k. And gun is on semi. Safety is number one concern in our team. Don't believe me. Then I can't help you there. Would like to thank Tackett (Aug DMR Post / My guide to fine tuning a Hop-Up Post) and Griffin (100% Compression Post) for their posts which inspired me to build mine. Oh ya. The modified AK Box Mag works, but is just for looks. I don't use it on the field. When I get satisfactory results will put this on Ehudakineyah (Tech Notes, Builds, Diary) post with a better picture. Love that post. Those who haven't read it are missing out.

    Now to the good parts. Here is the break down of this gun.

    CA SL8 based.

    Internals.
    SHS M170 Spring
    SHS 32:1 Gears
    SHS Aluminum Cylinder Nozzle w/ Oring
    SHS 7mm Bushings
    SHS HT Motor
    SHS Tappet Plate
    Super Shooter Ball Bearing Aluminum Piston Head
    Super Shooter V3 Spring Guide
    JBU Half tooth piston
    CA Cylinder Head (If I remember correctly)
    #14 Oring
    Type 0 Cylinder (Don't remember company)
    Sorbo 70D
    CA Hopup
    DIY Mosfet
    Gens Ace 11.1 25C 3000mah

    Externals
    CA G36C Outer Barrel Assembly
    CA Large Handguard
    Private Parts Magwell
    Spartan Doctrine 335mm Silencer
    ~630 madbull 6.03 Inner Barrel (Cut down 650)

    Mods
    Radiused GB
    Liquid Nailed Cylinder to Cylinder Head
    Hopup (My guide to fine tuning a Hop-Up by Tackett)
    Sanded down tappet plate.
    AOE

    Future Mods / Parts
    R hopup
    Port Cylinder
    Bore up Cylinder
    Riots 40.91:1
    14.8 Battery
    Terminus X Omega


    Not going m190. Then I'll have to use riots. When I have the money then you'll see this being a different monster. +mwahahaha+

    I have done the compression test and the compression is pretty solid even with the nozzle extended. I used three different hopup buckings and 520 was the max I have received, don't remember the brand. I feel that my loss in fps is in the hopup chamber itself. Instead of using a CA stock hopup I might have to try the 5kU/Matrix, Prowin or even SRC hopup chambers for a better seal. I can't find anywhere online where people use m160+ to achieve high fps with a g36 variant and I am interested to know how I can achieve this and if the CA hopup is the problem. Also can anyone teach me an easier way to put in a v3 spring guide (no hole by the way) coupled with an m170 spring in the gearbox by myself? Freaking hard. Had my buddy help me out.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
  2. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    1
    Santa Barbara
    Something different, cool.

    Have you thought about the possibility of your Barrel length being too long for your current Cylinder? I think you might benefit from a Bore Up kit.

    *** for SHS m170's, the most I've gotten out of them is 560fps/.20.

    For your spring guide, buy one with a hole in it ;)
     

  3. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    If I remember correctly the type 0 barrels are perfect for barrels 450+. Ooo. Totally forgot the bore up cylinder is going to be part of the future mods. Thanks for reminding will edit. Mmm so you get 560 with your g36 variant setup? That's with a bore up I take it? I Interesting. Thanks for the reference point. I don't see many people go more than 500 fps on a g36 variant. The more input the better.

    At the time I honestly haven't found v3 spring guides with a hole in it, always had some screw. I think I could get away with using v2 spring guides. Never seen anyone online do it although. I did research and found some (http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_401&products_id=39254) although. Funny it looks like its for v2 setups. Always thought the v3 spring guides had wider tabs. Not sure if it makes a difference. Also my CA gear box has no hole in the back. Might have to drill my own hole there as well.

    Thanks for your input Myster43_4.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
  4. EDI1st

    EDI1st New Member

    2,062
    3
    Fountain Valley
    um....scrap the TX Omega, it's an over priced unneeded POS.
    Grab 10.44 Riots or something close to that.
    You don't need hi torque gear set if you have a strong motor. (I run 13:1 + SP170 + JG M42 and it's perfectly fine.)

    Spring guide wise, you don't need to drill a hole on the GB, just grab a spring guide with hole in it like Mystery has said.
    Just push the spring guide down in position and pull out the screw driver after you compress the spring enough.
     
  5. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    1
    Santa Barbara
    I don't have a g36 platform. Those numbers were put out in an AR platform with a type 0 non ported Cylinder with a 509mm 6.03. Doesn't matter though.

    "Type 0 Barrels"? Do you mean Cylinders?

    630mm is a little too long for a standard non ported cylinder. I have no doubt that you'll gain some FPS by cutting some off of that barrel.

    Psh nah bro. He can run that motor, as long as he doesn't mind blowing FETs or frying motors. His choice though.

    All joking aside, OP go with a Lonex A1 or A2 depending on what gearset you end up going with.
     
  6. marine121496

    marine121496 Wahahaha~ Supporting Member

    7,506
    2
    Ann Arbor

    Well just going to add here I've had a v2 guide in my UMP (v3 gearbox) for a long time and I haven't noticed any problems (it stills shoots), well hope it helps.
     
  7. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    @EDI1st
    Thanks. I didn't know the Terminus X motors was that bad. I heard nothing, but good reviews until today that is. Well I stopped researching it 3 months ago. Thanks for the input with the spring guide as well. Unfortunately I am going for max fps and I believe the 32:1s (On my current budget) will help me get there. I could be wrong although. The SHS 13:1 gearset you are talking about can handle a guarder sp170? I'm assuming 13:1 is SHS and SP170 is guarder. That is pretty crazy! What fps are you getting with that setup by the way? I wish I had the JG blue motor but its hard to find now and days, especially a short type. How I envy the JG blue motor bearers. So far the SHS HT is doing alright, gets kind of warm though.

    @Mystery43_4
    Haha! Silly me yes I do mean cylinders. Didn't realize the Terminus motors burned fets so quickly. Must be pushing strong surge currents or the quality is not that good to be shorting so easily. Yes the new Lonex Titan motors are enticing me as well, just came across them last night. Awaiting for reviews on them when they come out. Ya, I might have to go bore up then to increase the fps on that lengthy inner barrel. I was not aware that I can gain fps by cutting the inner barrel. Well 630 mm is freakishly long.

    @marine121496
    Thanks again for reconfirming the spring guide! Every input is much appreciated. I was a fool for falling into some of the airsoft gimmicks.
     
  8. EDI1st

    EDI1st New Member

    2,062
    3
    Fountain Valley
    Just get the long JG Blue then cut the axle down.
    Echo 1 rebrands the JG Blue.

    One thing tho, my CA SL8 came with a Neo Magnet Motor so......idk lol
    It's still stock X_X

    SP170, was shooting around 600 fps brand new.
    It's around 570fps now.
     
  9. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    Echo1 it is then. What! Came with a neo magnet motor. Lucky! Ya. I should be investing in guarder springs. I know Guarder springs are pretty stiff compared to the SHS ones. That's pretty good though. 13:1 and SP170 and you're getting 570 when it breaks in. Is that an m4 setup or g36. If its g36 what hopup chamber are you using?
     
  10. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    1
    Santa Barbara
    Heavier SHS springs don't seem to be as stiff as they should be when compared side by side to another spring of a specific rating. My SHS m190 is nowhere near as stiff is my Army Force m190. And my SHS m170's put out the same power as my Guarder SP150.

    As far as cutting your barrel goes, it will only raise your FPS is you currently don't have enough Cylinder Volume to propel the BB all of the way out of the barrel. This is why shortening the barrel to match your Cyl Volume will raise your FPS.

    That, or you could just keep the current length and go with a bore up set up (which I believe you talked about doing).

    Yeah, their extreme voltage spikes love to fry MOSFET's. TerminusX products from what I understand (haven't used them personally, but know plenty of techs who have) aren't what they're cracked up to be.
     
  11. EDI1st

    EDI1st New Member

    2,062
    3
    Fountain Valley
    SR-25, even longer GB, which is pretty impressive.
    It'll be higher in standard GB X_X

    Hop, just stick with the CA.
     
  12. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    Ahhh. That makes so much sense. I personally haven't tried the Army Force springs. How do the Army Force springs compare to Guarder? Pretty much which m170 would be stiffer Guarder or Army Force? Darn need to switch out the springs.

    Ya. I calculated the inner barrel area and compared it to the area of the cylinder using pi*r^2. I am short. Was able to measure using a caliper. Even with the bore up I am screwed. Still have to account for area loss with the sorbo pad. Seems like I will have to cut to achieve optimal fps.

    Good thing I didn't jump the band wagon on those motors.
     
  13. Beast35

    Beast35 New Member

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  14. EDI1st

    EDI1st New Member

    2,062
    3
    Fountain Valley
    No experience with those spring, Guarder is one of the most consistent tho.
    Really tho, if it works, it works lol

    Cylinder to barrel ratio, you want something like a 3:2 to 2:1 ratio.
    You need more air to push heavier BBs.
     
  15. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    Will stick with the CA Hopup, Gaurder spring and cut my inner barrel to push the heavier bbs out. Totally forgot to consider the air pressure to push the weight of the bbs out. Minor setback, but I will prevail!
     
  16. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    1
    Santa Barbara
    You shouldn't need to cut your barrel if you grab a bore up kit. Entirely up to you though.
     
  17. EDI1st

    EDI1st New Member

    2,062
    3
    Fountain Valley
    Eh do some math :p
    Measure the actual air volume, remember the piston head doesn't start all the way back, it's a bit in the cylinder.

    Then do some math, cylinder:barrel, keep it between 3:2 and 2:1.
     
  18. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    Thanks! I already accounted for that as well. Cutting inner barrel according to calculations to fall within the 2-1.5 ratio you mentioned. Ordered the Guarder spring as well. Might as well put these SHS gears to the limits, no cheesy springs! Can't wait for that baby to come in. Going to order r hop in a bit for the range. Not sure if porting my cylinder will help, but it can't hurt.
     
  19. Mystery43_4

    Mystery43_4 New Member

    1,307
    1
    Santa Barbara
    Porting your Cyl? Whaaaaa? Why would you do that? You want as much air volume as possible, especially considering you're under-volumed right now...
     
  20. egotekkenh

    egotekkenh New Member

    38
    0
    West Covina
    Haha. Silly me, trix are for kids. Sorry rephrase. Porting piston head.