[Chow]

---Chow's Complete WIP Tech/Build Thread---
Created on June 6th, 2018​

Good day all,

It has been my intention from the time that I got back onto this forum to create one thread that contained my G36 work-in-progress ideas and updates. However, I soon started buying more replicas and have since sold off all of my G36's. While I can go through my existing threads for my AK's and update them one-at-a-time, I am under the opinion that I should create this one thread that contains everything regarding all of my replicas and their current tech status. I will also use this thread to ask questions and get opinions on builds that are in the works or are planned for the future. I have so many things that I want to do in the future that would not be applicable to my other threads, such as asking about sniper replicas and questions about potential sidearm replicas.

As such, I will no longer update my other threads, but they will still exist for the various information that is contained in them. They are all as follows:

Cyma AK-47/CM-028s [Gradual WIP] Thread - My Thoughts
Cyma AK-74/CM-048 [Gradual WIP] Thread - My Thoughts
Cyma AKS-74U/CM-045a [Gradual WIP] Thread - My Thoughts
JG G36k/c [Gradual WIP] Thread - My Thoughts (Note: These G36's have since been sold and will not be mentioned anymore in this thread)

Hopefully, I will be more active with airsoft in the coming months and years. I have not been out to a field for over a year at this point, and would like to start going back before too long now that college will be settling down in a few weeks.

I do have some questions in mind that I will update in the next post, but first, I will go ahead and post up some updated pictures of my current collection. I am uploading these based on their age/when I bought them starting from the oldest first. I am not going to post part lists for these as that would be redundant, but I will if I have questions about something later on.

The first one up is my WE M1911. This is also the replica that has been my avatar for a long time and is about 7 years old. I bought one of Evike's mystery boxes and this is what I received. I have kept it as I like the look and overall design of the M1911. It is currently non-functioning, as the slide will stick back after the first shot. While I do want to fix it at some point, I am not in a hurry as I rarely use it, if ever.

The next one up is my Cyma AK-47s/CM-028s and is the replica that got me back into airsoft in mid-2015. I bought it new/on sale off of Evike and enjoyed using it. It has some "upgrades" in it that I purchased off of Evike when I didn't know any better along with some basic DIY mods. I have not touched it since late 2016 and it has been stored since the last update in its thread.

Next up is my WE G17 GEN. 3. Once again, I fell for another one of Evike's mystery boxes and that is how I ended up with this. I was planning on selling it, but couldn't due to the forum rules. I decided to keep it and have actually enjoyed using it. It shoots remarkably well and I enjoy the feel of it. The inner barrel assembly had been bead-blasted to reveal a silver color. This replica is a little over 2 years old.

Soon after the G17, I ended up with a NIB WE G18c GEN. 4. Still, I have not used it at all and it has been stored for since the time of purchase, which was a little over 2 years ago.

The next replica I purchased on-sale after the G18c was my Cyma AKS-74U/CM-045A. This is my primary that I use on the field and it currently has SHS 13:1 gears, a ZCI HT motor, DIY mods, re-stained wood, and a DIY flat-hop. The stock motor it came with started smoking and is why I replaced parts from my old G36k into it. Just as I did that though, I got busy with life and never tuned it well. As far as I remember, it skips shots on full-auto. This replica is almost 2 years old, but has been stored for the past year since its last update in its thread.

Finally, my last replica is my Cyma AK-74/CM-048. I purchased this one on-sale as well, but have never fielded it. I like everything about it, but have never had the chance to really use it. It has some basic DIY mods done to it, re-stained the wood, as well as a DIY flat-hop. This replica is a little under a year old and has been stored since the last update in its thread.

In closing, I will be posting up tech-related questions soon. Mostly, I have been curious about various Maple Leaf buckings and nubs that I have wanted to try out. I am also very, very tempted to purchase a sniper replica at some point down the road that I will definitely need help with when the time comes.

Thanks for reading and I'll be posting some questions shortly,
Chow

 

[Chow]

Alright, so some of the questions that I have regards the Maple Leaf buckings and nubs.

I am wanting to try something new with my hop-ups in both of my VFC-cloned AK's, starting with my AKS-74U. The DIY flat-hops have done relatively well for me, but I am wanting to try a bucking and nub combination that is relatively reliable and is preferably a drop-in. When I feel like working on my replicas nowadays, I tend to do so in a day's time-span and don't spend a lot of time on them like I used to. Because of this, I would like to find a combination of a bucking and nub that wouldn't take as long to tune as a flat-hop would.

From what I have researched so far, it seems like a Maple Leaf bucking and nub is a good place to start for what I am looking for. However, I am fairly confused as to the different types there are available (acronyms such as AST, RTX, ect.?) as well as what the nub could be used for.

I think I understand the various degrees and their significance. Ideally, I think I should be looking for a bucking with a 60 degree rating, as the softer material would grip the BB better for a smoother back-spin. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a Maple Leaf 60 degree bucking in stock anywhere, but the 70 degree buckings seem to be easy to find. With that said, my AKS-74U shoots a little under 350FPS, would the difference between the 60 and 70 degree buckings make a big difference with my replica?

Obviously, I am looking for an AEG bucking. However, are there any differences at all with Maple Leaf's AEG Buckings? I ask because I have come across various information on AirsoftSniperForum about the mounds being different shapes in some of the buckings, but I'm not sure if they are specifically referring to AEG buckings or VSR buckings?

As far as the nub is concerned, I have read that people will pair a Maple Leaf bucking with a Maple Leaf concave nub. To me, the concave nub looks like it would only work with a flat-hopped bucking though? However, various reviews and posts on forums seem to indicate that it would work with a Maple Leaf bucking that has a mound though? Maybe with both?

If the bucking and nub were compatible with each other and if the 70 degree bucking would work, would getting these work for what I am looking for:

Maple Leaf 70 Degree Bucking
Maple Leaf Concave Nub

Beyond that, some websites list Maple Leaf products with acronyms such as AST, RTX, or RA-Tech. Are there any differences with these?

Hopefully I didn't ask too much, but I do appreciate everyone's time in looking through this.

Thanks,
Chow

 

[adas1223]

Nice, I'd go for the 60 degree bucking. From what I'd read upon, it's trying to hop heavy bbs with higher fps builds which wear/rip the softer ones quicker. I too don't understand concave nubs with ml buckings. If anything a regular nub or flat nub would work. I have a ml 75 I'm about to fit into my Sniper once I hit that kind of fps

As for the Sniper build, I'm enjoying my bar10 build equally as my aegs and gas builds. If not more. I say go for it now. There's so many platforms it all depends on your budget.

 

[LightIsRight]

Yes, I believe that the concave nub is supposed to be used. @Guges Mk3 Is the ML expert though.

If you like flat hop but dislike the tuning for the eraser nub, the Modify flat nub is a good drop-in option. I currently have that along with a flat hopped G&G Green in my MK18. Someday I want to do a ML vs flat hop comparison.

 

[Guges Mk3]

Lefse just started playing with the ML units now. He is pleased so far....I'll let him chime in.

 

[Lefse]

I have only tested one of the 60 degree packings in my G&G UMG so far, but I did notice a change in the BB flight path. With .28 gram BB's the flight path is very flat now and the hop-up seems to better handle heavier BB's now. I haven't measured any change in range, but the accuracy is noticeably better with the flatter flight path.

I have messed around with flat-hop's before, but I simply don't have steady enough hands to cut a very precise nub, so this is much easier.

 

[Guges Mk3]

And that is always my point with ML packing's and nubs. Get 95% of the performance of the best Flat Hop with drop in ease.

 

[Chow]

Nice, I'd go for the 60 degree bucking. From what I'd read upon, it's trying to hop heavy bbs with higher fps builds which wear/rip the softer ones quicker. I too don't understand concave nubs with ml buckings. If anything a regular nub or flat nub would work. I have a ml 75 I'm about to fit into my Sniper once I hit that kind of fps

As for the Sniper build, I'm enjoying my bar10 build equally as my aegs and gas builds. If not more. I say go for it now. There's so many platforms it all depends on your budget.

The 60 degree bucking seems to be what I need to be looking for. I have yet to find one in stock though for an AEG, unfortunately. More than likely, it may just require me testing around with the concave nub and seeing how the ML 70 degree bucking will work with it based on the replies below.

The one sniper replica that I have been looking at is the JG Bar-10 to use as a base. My worry is that I will invest in the actual replica + additional parts, and then find out that I don't like using it at the field. My friend owns an L96 replica that he has been wanting me to try out and I will whenever I make it out to the field again. After that, I think I'll have a better idea about using a sniper replica and all that it entails. Obviously not performance-wise, but the feel of it and having a limited amount of ammo will/should give me some better particulars about using it, perhaps.

Yes, I believe that the concave nub is supposed to be used. @Guges Mk3 Is the ML expert though.

If you like flat hop but dislike the tuning for the eraser nub, the Modify flat nub is a good drop-in option. I currently have that along with a flat hopped G&G Green in my MK18. Someday I want to do a ML vs flat hop comparison.

I would love to see a good comparison between the different types and brands of drop-in buckings/nubs versus the flat-hop or r-hop. As far as I know, the best information I have found so far comes from a website called OverHoppers. The information looks decent, but I am unsure of the credibility behind the authors. I will look into the Modify nub and a G&G Green before ordering anything, as I have read of that combo being used before.

To the best of your knowledge, what is your effective range/accuracy/grouping like in your MK18 using the G&G and Modify combo?

I have only tested one of the 60 degree packings in my G&G UMG so far, but I did notice a change in the BB flight path. With .28 gram BB's the flight path is very flat now and the hop-up seems to better handle heavier BB's now. I haven't measured any change in range, but the accuracy is noticeably better with the flatter flight path.

I have messed around with flat-hop's before, but I simply don't have steady enough hands to cut a very precise nub, so this is much easier.

This is good confirmation for what I am looking for Lefse, thanks for the reply. What nub do you use with the bucking/packing?

And that is always my point with ML packing's and nubs. Get 95% of the performance of the best Flat Hop with drop in ease.

One of the reasons that I started looking more into this was because of what you posted the other day in the thread, Recommended Upgrades for Ak:

Don't get me wrong, but there are simpler solution for your needs like a Maple Leaf Hop-Up packing (aka known incorrectly as a bucking) in 60 Durometer and a matching Maple Leaf Nub. Drop in easy...no fuss, cutting, trimming, fitting, testing...just drop in, reinstall barrel and shoot.

Seeing this made me really reconsider the effectiveness of drop-in parts for the hop-up, especially given the relatively low cost of a bucking/packing and nub combo. I'm really looking forward to trying some stuff out and hopefully finding a better and easier alternative to a DIY flat-hop.

I also see that you and Lefse are calling the bucking a packing? If you don't mind me asking, where did this come from? Until I saw your post the other day, I have never heard of the bucking being called that.

Thank you all for the replies.

I will continue looking more into various bucking/packing and nub combos, and more than likely will purchase the two I linked earlier to test out with.

At some point soon, I will also start working on getting my AKS-74U working correctly again and will post up its part's list.

Thanks again all,
Chow

 

[-Spitfire-]

I also see that you and Lefse are calling the bucking a packing? If you don't mind me asking, where did this come from? Until I saw your post the other day, I have never heard of the bucking being called that.

Iirc, that's the original term used to refer to it in airsoft, due to the Asians trying to speak English lol. The technically correct term is bucking, which is why it's the term that is currently used. While it's cool to know that bit of trivia, it's not exactly relevant to concise teching conversations, and is more confusing than anything else (for beginners).

 

[Lefse]

I thought it was the other way around? That "packing" is the correct technical term, and "bucking" is so widely used that it's been adopted by the industry? The Wikipedia definition of "packing" fits well with what a hop-up rubber actually is. The Norwegian term is actually "hop-up pakning".

I'm using the ML concave nub btw.

 

[-Spitfire-]

Shim, bushing, and bucking are all terms that I have heard used outside of airsoft, in conjunction with engineering. Beyond that, my Googlefu is failing me at the moment. However, my point that using the term packing only serves to confuse beginners still stands.

 

[Chow]

Interesting, sounds good. I just wanted to make sure that it was an interchangeable term and not something different.

I'm using the ML concave nub

Awesome, thanks for the reply. I take it then that the inner mound on the ML AEG packing is shaped specifically for the use of the ML concave nub? The very few pictures that I have seen of the inner mound would suggest that it is, but I just want to make sure.

Sorry if any of my questions are redundant, I'm just trying to find matching and reliable information.

I'm hoping to order a bucking/nub combo by tonight or tomorrow at some point. Then, I can get my AKS-74U back up and running through the next couple of weeks and will keep this thread updated.

Thanks,
Chow

 

[Lefse]

The ML rubber (just gonna call them hop-up rubbers now ) seems to work very well with the ML concave nub.

 

[-Spitfire-]

....(just gonna call them hop-up rubbers now )....

 

[Lefse]

What? They're made of rubber (kinda) and has to do with the hop-up?

 

[Guges Mk3]

SpitF...actual correct term is a "packing".

If you look up definition for "bucking" nothing exists in the American/English dictionary for a rubber sleeve around a pipe.

If you look up packing you do find such a definition for this object.

By definition this is a little rubber sleeve that goes around a tube or a pipe.

Back 19 years ago. SystemA/Japanese upgrade parts called that rubber sleeve a "bucking". 4 years later they corrected themselves, but the damage was done. The masses calls it incorrectly a "bucking".

All the Japanese Companies have "correct" nomenclature, now:

Some Taiwan companies use the proper terms too.

All else, don't know, don't care or is just being a "rebel".

Sort of like calling a "clip", a magazine.

Being a scholar by nature...I call an item what it is...

 

[BOA_SP3CT3R]

The ML buckings/packings/rubbers have an r-hop shaped concave mound, making them very effective when paired with a concave nub. In some cases(mainly spring bolt guns) they perform better than even a perfectly tuned r-hop. There's a thread on Airsoft Sniper Forum, I believe it's "flat hop, r-hop, or maple leaf", that has a discussion on various hop systems. It's mostly just Dimitri MDP telling everyone how the Maple Leaf is better.

 

[Lefse]

It improved the meh hop-up performance of my G&G UMG so it definitely seems to be more than just another gimmick.

 

[BOA_SP3CT3R]

The Truhop is another great one. I'm testing one with the supplied 3d printed concave nub, it performs extremely well.

 

[Chow]

I updated the pictures from my first post to ones taken outside in the natural sunlight.

As someone else who likes using correct terminology, I think I will also start calling it a packing from now one. I do see Spitfire's point though, as researching "airsoft bucking" versus "airsoft packing" will yield very different results, where most of the information has nothing to do with each other. Thank you Guges for the all of historical background information and pictures!

The ML rubber (just gonna call them hop-up rubbers now ) seems to work very well with the ML concave nub.

The ML buckings/packings/rubbers have an r-hop shaped concave mound, making them very effective when paired with a concave nub.

This is what I was looking for, exactly what I was looking for. I will be placing an order for a ML 70 degree packing and a ML concave nub by tonight, hopefully. This will give me some stuff to test around with when I start working on my AKS-74U later this week. Later on, I may try a different combo with my AK-74, but that will be after I finish up with the AKS-74U.

Again, I updated the pictures in my first post, but here are a few additional ones of my AKS-74U that I will begin work on this week:

Thanks again all,
Chow