civilian militias

Discussion in 'Staging Area' started by Dante, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. Dante

    Dante New Member

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    Omaha
    just a little discussion on the topic of civilian militias.

    (and before anyone mentions the national guard, i don't believe that they fall into the definition of militia.)

    when you think of modern militia groups, what pops into mind?
    do you think that militias and the idea of a militia is outdated?

    i'm sure a lot of people think of crazy backwoods rednecks when they think of modern militias.
    so i was thinking renaming militias. civil defense forces. sounds much nicer doesn't it? i do think that CDTs are still a good thing. not just in case of a red dawn scenario, but in case of natural disasters, or riots (like the riots from the early 90's) etc, etc.

    any thoughts that you guys have?
     
  2. slipknot2302

    slipknot2302 New Member

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    Well, it seems to me, they're are more shootings than actual helping going on. I love guns, but I don't think giving a bunch of civilians a gun and putting the law in there hands is a good idea.
     

  3. glenlovesm4

    glenlovesm4 New Member

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    Knoxville
    I would go Red Dawn if **** hit the fan. When I think of militias I think of my neighbors flying confederate flags wielding some type of crap rifle or shotgun.
     
  4. slipknot2302

    slipknot2302 New Member

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    I believe the only good, effective type of militia is if there is some sort of invasion, whether it he Russian or zombie.
     
  5. glenlovesm4

    glenlovesm4 New Member

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    Knoxville
    Or North Korean. Don't forget about the Cubans in the south.
     
  6. Shadow_Nugz

    Shadow_Nugz New Member

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    Sioux City
    As defined by the Constitution:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Basically says that the formation of militias is to keep the power of gun ownership available to citizens.

    What the 2nd amendment does:
    deterring tyrannical government(I will not bring politics into this but there is a reason gun purchases have risen over 100% since the election)
    repelling invasion(as you guys said, Red Dawn scenario-new movie comes out Nov 21)
    suppressing insurrection(put down unjust revolutions)
    facilitating a natural right of self-defense(keeping guns in the hands of citizens)
    participating in law enforcement(gun owners usually know more about law than their non gun owning neighbors)
    enabling the people to organize a militia system(duh)

    Sorry if you guys feel that this is a rant but I feel very deeply about this issue. As a owner of 3 firearms, with more down the road, I am involved in this issue whether I like it or not.
     
  7. glenlovesm4

    glenlovesm4 New Member

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    Knoxville
    If you really want to get into defending the country watch the original Red Dawn.
     
  8. Hartman96

    Hartman96 New Member

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    Woodville
    I like your idea. A local CDF would be a much better first responder to a natural disaster or severe riots than the national guard, IF properly trained and equipped.
     
  9. Shadow_Nugz

    Shadow_Nugz New Member

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    Sioux City
    Well, hey. Trained in first aid, competent knowledge of survival techniques from years of Boy Scouts and plenty of time on the range?

    Now starting a NW Iowa militia!
     
  10. Dante

    Dante New Member

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    Omaha
    unfortunately more than a small handful of people participating in any sort of organized training that could be considered 'militaristic' would gain A LOT of unwanted, or needed attention from the gov't who would probably try to interfere.
     
  11. Shadow_Nugz

    Shadow_Nugz New Member

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    Sioux City
    I highly doubt that. There are training courses for civilians, LE and military personnel all over the country all of the time. If there was a massive and unexpected buildup, then maybe there might be some concern but it would be nothing too worrying.

    Heck, as a 19 year old, if I came upon the money, I could buy 10 AR's, 1000's of rounds on ammunition and get training for some of my buddies and no one would raise an eyebrow.
     
  12. slipknot2302

    slipknot2302 New Member

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    That's the problem sometimes. If they aren't well trained, things could go very bad.
     
  13. Dante

    Dante New Member

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    Omaha
    10 people is a small handful of people, but i'm still sure that 10 19yr olds with ARs locals would raise an eyebrow. yes there are classes, but the classes are not a unified group.

    however if there's suddenly 100 people doing military-esque drills on some one's farm then i'm sure the city or county (if outside of the city) will have close eye on them, and i'm sure if all of them have a rifles, and if more than a few have permits for full auto, they will get a lot of attention mostly like from the state level or higher.

    you also have to think about what a militia or CDF would be trying to accomplish.
    defending against foreign invaders-you'll need more than a few hunting rifles and shotguns and handguns
    putting down unjust revolutions-see the above
    starting a justified revolution-see the above
    imposing order during riots or after natural disaster- semi-auto rifles and shotguns and handguns could work, but remember there are a lot of illegal guns out there and to impose that order you need to be able to outgun anyone one who would want to take advantage of the situation and resist any 'greater good' order the CDF may try to enforce.

    and again, 10 people is hardly a militia. you can't achieve or even hope to achieve any of those goals with 10 people...unless you're enforcing order on maybe two whole houses on a block....but the local gangbangers would most likely over power you, and that's most of the reason you wouldn't get much attention from the city or higher if you did by 10 ARs and a few thousand rounds of ammo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  14. Hartman96

    Hartman96 New Member

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    Woodville
    If you were to co-operate with the local government and police you would have a whole different scenario. Also history has proven that automatic does not equal firefight superiority. You wouldn't need to have fully automatic rifles to do anything.
     
  15. Dante

    Dante New Member

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    Omaha
    even if you co-operate fully you will still get undeserved attention.
    and you're right, but it helps a lot, especially when neither side is particularly well trained. we're talking militia/CDF, not a PMC or something. a group of people who may train one day a weekend at most probably.

    in short yes, experienced professionals who know their weapons inside and out, backwards and forwards and upside down can win using muzzle loaders against a like number of idiots with AKs.
    but in a militia or CDF you will not have many if any professionals like that. while a CDF or militia will probably have a little bit more training, and a few ex-service members the difference in experience and skill and ability will probably not be terribly decisive between CDF and local gangbangers. hell chances are the gangbangers have had more experience under fire if not legitamate training.
     
  16. Hartman96

    Hartman96 New Member

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    Woodville
    You are correct but even this would be better than a hastily formed fighting force that has never had any experience fighting together in any way.
     
  17. Dante

    Dante New Member

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    Omaha
    oh yes it is much better, i was just returning from your counter point.

    i am personally all for people educating, training and arming themselves for any just in case sort of situations, but first people need to understand that they'll need more than a few family members and friends, they'll need to reach out to coworkers and complete strangers to find the numbers needed to accomplish any real goal. personally to me just about anything below platoon strength (numerically) wouldn't be much good beyond keeping a single block in check.
     
  18. Itsahak

    Itsahak Member

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    I have news for you. Most LE don't want civilians getting in our way. Well meaning, trained individuals are given no extra lee-way when it comes to enforcing laws, and quite often see themselves charged with obstruction.

    Obviously I can't go into detail, but we've got several groups we keep a loose eye on in my area. Most are well intentioned. I've also seen several low flying, small aircraft fly over our gaming areas when we play airsoft. At places where you never/rarely see them...
     
  19. Dante

    Dante New Member

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    Omaha
    a militia or CDF isn't meant to assist law enforcement, but to take action when law enforcment has failed or is failing.

    had louisiana had a few CDF type groups, they may have been able to keep looting, pillaging, etc from reaching the levels they did, and could have provided assitance to non-members had they had some sort of stock pile of supplies.

    the national guard tends to be the first responders for domestic disasters, but that requires guardsmen to go to their muster point. get in uniformed and gear, and wait while the rest of their units show up and then wait for the beauracratic methonds of the military to give them orders.
    instead
    local CDF members get into direct contact with their self appointed leaders, and direction immediately and enact preplanned responses right away because all their gear was already at home and ready to go. national guard shows up when ever they do and CDF steps back unit leadership updates nat'l guard leadership of the specific situation what roads are flooded/blocked where the most property (homes) had the most damage who needs what sort of help the most, not to mention providing said help.


    any way thank you for crediting what i said wether intentionally or unintentionally.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012