CQB Build

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Pharaoh, Nov 10, 2018.

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  1. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Active Member Supporting Member

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    Ok, so it's time for a build. There are two fields that I play at, my outdoor field has a 400fps limit and my indoor field has a 350 fps limit. I put a Promy MS100 in my backup M4 (mostly stock G&G Full Metal) about a year ago and it shoots above 350, I don't remember the exact FPS but I can't use it at my indoor field. As we come into winter I'm going to want to start playing the indoor field, so a CQB build it is. I have future plans of a DMR for my current backup so I bought an almost brand new Full Metal G&G GC-15 M4A1 off ebay as my base platform the the CQB build.
    The hand guards are coming off and I'm going to install a free float RIS on it, i'm going for the SD look.
    I'm thinking about the Madbull Gemtech Licensed T2 RAS kit paired with a ZCI 300mm 6.02. Or I will just try to piece together the correct RIS, outer, and suppressor for the correct look.
    I'm going for 35-40 rps and 350 fps
    Undecided on bearings or bushings also undecided on what motor and gear ratio to go with.
    I currently using 7.4 volt 25c constant/50c burst Turnigy lipo's, I use 2 of them at a time with a parallel connector so I double the availability. I'm hoping to be able to use the same Lipo's in this build.
    I'm also not sure on the spring, from what I read the Promy MS100 should get me where I want to be FPS wise but I have it (granted brand new still with very little use) in my backup M4 and it shoots too hot for indoor play. My backup is mostly stock but I did shim it and get the compression as perfect as I could.
    Below is a cursory list of part's I have put together. I would love to hear the opinions of the more experienced guys out there.

    Gate Titan
    VFC Selector Plate
    Lonex Hopup
    G&G Green Bucking
    Maple Leaf Nub
    SHS HS Motor or HT
    SHS 14-Tooth High Speed Piston
    Prometheus NEO POM Piston Head
    Lonex Air Nozzel
    SHS 12:1 Gears
    Lonex Anti-Reversal Latch
    Lonex Ball Bearing Spring Guide
    Sorbo Pad,Scatterplot,1/8”/Hardness:70
    Tappet Plate--Guarder if I can find one in stock someplace
    6.02 ZCI, 300mm Inner Barrel
    SHS 8mm Steel Bearings or SHS 8mm Steel Bushings
    Spring-Prometheus MS100S----????????
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  2. Honeybadgerz17

    Honeybadgerz17 Well-Known Member

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    You really don't need to change the selector plate, the hopup, the anti reversal latch, or the cutoff lever if they're working just fine. Just save some cash there.

    Also think about getting a maple leaf hop up bucking and nub combination. However the g&g green is a good bucking, so you cabt go wrong there.

    Finally. Are you trying to go for trigger response or rate of fire in this build
     
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  3. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Active Member Supporting Member

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    I forgot to specify, the M4 I'm using for the project is front wired; which I do not like. I have a couple of spare gear boxes so I'm going to set that gearbox aside intact and start from the ground up so I will need the selector plate and anti reversal latch, I wont need a cutoff lever as I will be installing the Gate Titan. Speaking of needing all the parts I didn't specify a cylinder in my parts list; will need one of those as well.
    I would say I'm going for ROF on this one, I would like to get as close to that 40 rps mark while still having descent trigger response.
     
  4. antizombie

    antizombie Well-Known Member

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    Hitting 40 RPS in a single sector gear is pretty high stress. You'll need a pretty low TPA motor, probably 14 or lower if you can find one. You'll more than likely need an sp120/m130 and then short stroke to avoid PME at such a high RPS. You're also not gonna get that rps on 7.4s, you're gonna need a pretty beefy 11.1 for this build. Basically as large as you can fit in your gun. Also definitely don't use bearings in this build. I'd go for ZCI solid steel bushings.
     
  5. Airsup

    Airsup Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would highly recommend using a DSG instead of SSG. For a 40+ RPS SSG you will need a very fast motor and a fat 11.1. Also there is a fair amount more stress with a full stroke piston vs. an 8t piston at that ROF.
     
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  6. Airsup

    Airsup Well-Known Member

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    Once again we say the same thing at the same time.
     
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  7. antizombie

    antizombie Well-Known Member

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  8. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Active Member Supporting Member

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    I'm not ready for a DSG build...lol.... Maybe I'm setting my sights a bit too high at 40rps. I'm shooting about 18 to 20 rps on my main gun right now. I defiantly want higher than that though.
     
  9. antizombie

    antizombie Well-Known Member

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    40 is kinda high, but if you wanna go for it, go for it. Just be aware it'll be high stress. Hitting around the 30 mark is alot easier.
     
  10. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Active Member Supporting Member

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    yea...I think 30 is more reasonable for me. I think I'll try to get there as opposed to 40
     
  11. Airsup

    Airsup Well-Known Member

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    If you want to go mid-upper 30’s then 13:1 or 12:1 with a 16TPA should get you there.
     
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  12. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Active Member Supporting Member

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    Ok This is what I ordered. I'm going for the SD look. The rest of the parts I have in the parts bin :)
    I found a somewhat broke in Prommy MS100 that's shooting just under the 350fps, right where I need to be. So I'm gonna use that spring. Probably won't use the ball bearings on the piston head as in may increase FPS a bit due thickness, I also want that thing to be light as possible. All will be powered same as my main M4, 7.4 volt 25c/50c burst Turnigy lipo's, I use 2 of them at a time with a parallel connector.
    Hope this thing doesn't blow up:eek:...lol....still not sure I should have went with the HS motor but I've never used one before and wanted to try, so if it doesn't work out I'll just buy a HT. This is only my second build, the first one turned out awesome....So here's to the second:D
    As always thank you to the guys out there that know way more than me and are always ready to help.

    Gate Titan
    Lonex Hopup
    G&G Green Bucking
    Maple Leaf Nub
    SHS HS Motor
    SHS 14-Tooth High Speed Piston
    Prometheus NEO POM Piston Head
    Lonex Air Nozzel
    SHS 12:1 Gears
    Lonex Ball Bearing Spring Guide
    Sorbo Pad,Scatterplot,1/8”/Hardness:70
    SHS 8mm Steel Bushings
    6.02 ZCI, 300mm Inner Barrel
    4.5" Outer Barrel
    1" Barrel Extension
    Surpressor 30x180mm
    7" Free Float RIS
     
  13. BOA_SP3CT3R

    BOA_SP3CT3R Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporting Member

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    Looks like a nice list of parts. With a 7.4v you should be getting 28-30 RPS, 11.1v should get you just over 40 RPS. If you use an 11.1 you'll need an M120 spring or higher, some short stroking and possibly to lighten up the piston. Your final RPS may be a bit lower than what the HS5 calculator predicts since there will be a lot of strain on the motor, being low TPA. Personally I'd have gone 10:1 18tpa, 12:1 16tpa, a slow DSG, or a more moderate SSG with a 14.8v.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
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  14. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Unless SHS have changed the specs you'll get around 50 RPS with that motor and 13:1 ratio gears with an 11.1V li-po. If it's their balanced 16 TPA motor it'll do 40 ish RPS and there's a high risk of PME with that spring.

    I reached 51 RPS with an SHS HS motor (12 TPA I think?), 13:1 ratio gears with 3 teeth short stroke, M130 spring and a high performance 11.V li-po in a build I did several years ago.
     
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  15. BOA_SP3CT3R

    BOA_SP3CT3R Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporting Member

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    I think they have 12 turns now.
     
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  16. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Should give close to 50 RPS with 13:1 ratio gears and an M120/130 spring with a decent 11.1V li-po then.
     
  17. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Active Member Supporting Member

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    Ok, Parts came in. Got an almost brand new G & G Full Metal GC-16 M4 off Ebay for cheap. Removed the stock outer and hand guards, I put the floating RIS, shorty outer, and suppressor on it to get a feel for what she is gonna look like. The stock gearbox is front wired(yuk) and the thing shot about 390fps stock. I'm just gonna pull that gear box and set it aside un-cracked. I have a spare GB all those new parts are going in. I'm gonna change the grip and possibly stock as well.
    I run 7.4 volt 25c/50c burst Turnigy lipo's, 2 of them at a time with a parallel connector. So wherever that will get me in terms of ROF.

    Now to set aside the better part of a Saturday to build the the GB cause I'm slow as hell...:eek: 20181119_223021.jpg 20181119_223317.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  18. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I see 3 parts you did not need to change...for they will make no difference in your AEG.
     
  19. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Active Member Supporting Member

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    I am assembling the GB from an empty shell so anything that I did not already have laying around I needed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  20. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I would ditch one of the bearing sets between the spring guide and the piston head if they both have them.