Danerd's Various Builds and Tech Thread

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by danerd, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    Hey all,

    I've been on the forum for quite a while now, and have decided to throw my hat into the ring of build threads. Some of you may be thinking "great, another build thraed...", But I'll do my best to keep things interesting!

    A little backround on me:

    I first began airsoft back in 2007. I was invited by a few friends to go play at some property one them owned after school let out. At the time, I had no knowledge of the online retailers or what "actual" airsoft guns were. All I knew of was what could be had at the local Walmart. I showed up to play with a clear Crossman Pulse R72 (G3 shorty), paintball mask, and a fanny pack I used to keep a bottle of BBs in. To be honest, I had never had so much fun. About a year later I discovered Airsoft GI and Evike, and picked up my first "actual" airsoft gun: A JG G36K. I spent about three years with that gun, playing nearly every weekend in all types of weather with it. When it finally broke, I thought it would be an easy fix. Nope. For those of you who have never opened a gearbox, and then do so thinking it wont be hard, you know what I mean ;). Needless to say, I picked up a new gun shortly after that. To make a long story short, Ive been in the sport since then, and have had virtually every major category of platform. I started teching my own rifles about 8 years ago and have done everything save for a DSG or ER-hop. (Ive never done either of them as I have never had the need)

    That all said, I'll start of with a few builds:

    - CYMA M14

    This has been a work in progress for a while now. I've always had a soft spot for the older rifles and the M14 is no exception. There is just something about it. This particular M14 has been a WIP for over a year now. I picked it up non-functioning in a trade. Turned out it the issue was the gearbox locking up. Once unlocked, it worked fine. Performance was nothing special whatsoever.

    I have an older thread here that details the work that has gone into it so far. It has taken a backseat to other projects since then. I will be returning to this project in due time.

    - VFC SR15E3 IWS

    The name is a mouthful, no? Basically its a VFC M4 with Knights Armament trademarks on the body and rail, full ambi features (which is fantastic for a lefty like me) and is overall an awesome piece. This one has been in the works since September; working on it when I would come home from college when I had the time. Now that I'm done with college, I can put more time into it. It has had an odd journey, starting out as an AEG, then an HPA rifle, then back to an AEG. Currently it sits as my go-to primary and has been pretty well-built, but I'd like to push it a bit further. This is the build I'll be focusing on first.

    - JG G36

    One would think that after having five of these things, selling all of them, and regretting selling each one, I would have learned by now to keep at least one. Hopefully, this is that one.
    This G36 isnt the common C variant, or the K, but rather the full-size or E variant. This one doesnt need much work internally, really the basics are it. Im debating whether or not I want to go nuts on the externals. I built one years ago for a customer that turned out really nice, and it didnt cost too much.

    - Classic Army SA58

    This is the rifle I really learned how to tech on. Its a real oldie - Ive had it about eight years and it has seen better days. It still has the original DS Arms trademarks on it, but its in really rough shape and in need of a few parts that arent easy to come by nowadays. That all said, it has been a bit of a gem because you really dont see them. I could turn it into a "DMR" seeing that its a 7.62 rifle, but with it being the carbine variant instead of the full-size, I think a full stock 7.62 SBR would be better.

    - WE G18C

    I picked this up recently in a trade. The previous owner did a number on the lower with a wretched stippling job, they also "upgraded" it with a number of questionable aftermarket parts that seem to be hindering, rather than improving its performance. Angel Custom for the win, right? :rolleyes:
     
  2. BOA_SP3CT3R

    BOA_SP3CT3R Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporting Member

    2,898
    1,707
    Bull Shoals

  3. link0

    link0 Well-Known Member

    1,348
    1,093
    SF Bay Area
    You almost never see any full length G36's. I hope you work on that first.
     
    Chow likes this.
  4. Chow

    Chow Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    1,395
    306
    DFW
    Awesome, looking forward to this.

    I had an R72 as well around that time period before I found out about Evike. It was fun too when my friends had similar Crosmans, haha. At that time, I was amazed at how much better my old Classic Army M4 performed than the R72 when the R72 finally broke.

    I remember watching your other thread on the M14. Even though I never cared much for the look of stock M14's, I still think that what you did to yours makes it one of the best replica builds I have ever seen. I can only imagine how difficult that must've been with the internals on that type of replica. Great job on it and I hope that you continue updating it in the future.

    Likewise, it will be very interesting to see the G36 that you picked up. I remember seeing those more often when retailers could sell them in the US, but haven't seen many of them since then.

    Subbing,
    Chow
     
    BOA_SP3CT3R likes this.
  5. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    View attachment 150237 @link0 I agree. I actually prefer the longer variants of the G36 over the shorter. I've put an image of the one I did for a customer back in 2015. I think I'll keep it more kosher, only messing with the optics so that it better matches what is in service with the Bundeswehr today.

    @Chow Sadly the M14 was put back into its box in pieces shortly before I left for my last year of college. I never did figure out what the issue with it was, although I do have a few theories as to what may be causing them. It still needs a few pieces here and there internally and I'll be working to pick those up.
     
    fred_ditto, link0 and Chow like this.
  6. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    So, starting off with the SR16:

    I originally built this thing as an HPA setup with a Protech Mk2.5. Now, there wasn't anything wrong with it, and it actually performed pretty well. I was offered a Gen3 V2 Fusion Engine in exchange for it, and I couldn't say no. After installing the FE and getting it dialed in, I quickly realized this:

    HPA (in my opinion) takes a good amount of fun out of the sport for me. It was stupid easy to get dialed in and shooting like a dream. My qualms with it were these:
    - It took the satisfaction out of building a gun that performs extremely well. In my case, really getting to know what makes your gun tick. Simply dropping something in with little (or no) major tuning and boom, instant high-end performance is a detractor for me.
    - The dang line and tank. These took up valuable space on my kit and I just wasn't a fan. Now, I know what some of you may be thinking "Well, you just have to get used to it". Ive been playing with AEGs for 11 years. I remember when Polarstars first hit the market. I wasn't a big fan of them then or now.
    - I don't have good access to a source of air. Surfing and scuba shops aren't really a thing in Northeast Ohio (while they do exist, they aren't widespread), and the closest field for me that does do fills is an hour a half drive over in Pennsylvania. With the amount of shooting and tuning I do, this was the biggest factor in me ditching HPA.

    Soooo..... I rebuilt it as an AEG. Digging through the bag of parts I pulled out of it, I took stock of what I had, and what I wanted the rifle to do. I wanted a platform that would get great trigger response, be highly accurate, and have a respectable rate of fire. Now I did a build back in 2013 with a G&P VLTOR Mk18 as a base, and it shot amazingly. 399-401fps, 39rps and dead-on accurate out to 220ft. The parts in it were:

    G&P Shell
    G&P 8mm bearings
    G&P Tappet plate
    ZCI Bearing spring guide
    Seigetek 10.44:1 Gears
    SHS High Torque motor (16tpa_
    SHS M130 Spring
    SHS 15t piston
    SHS Nylon piston head
    ZCI Anti-heat cylinder
    G&P Cylinder head
    G&P Aluminum o-ring nozzle
    BTC Chimera Fet
    Lonex hopup
    Lonex 70D bucking
    IR-Hop
    ZCI 6.02x320mm barrel


    I based the SR16 build on that G&P. As the old saying goes, "If it aint broke, don't fix it", but I did make a few improvements on the second go-around. After selling the Fusion Engine, I needed a gearbox for this thing. I opted for a Lonex, as I have had good experiences with them in the past. The only issue with the Lonex shell is that the back end is a tad thicker than the VFC shell and needed some dremeling to get it to seat right.

    I also opted to get rid of the Lonex bearings and replaced them with the steel bushings I kept from the VFC shell. I've blown bearings from Lonex, G&P, and even Modify Ceramics. For me, I prefer ultimate reliability over the slight performance boost bearings can offer; those being less resistance and an ever so slight rate of fire boost. A few other parts were changed for better ones, those being the spring (A Guarder SP110 instead of an SHS), the barrel (A Prometheus instead of a ZCI) and I changed the motor from a 16tpa to an ASG 28tpa. Ive been using buffertube lipos to power this thing, and as a necessity to not overdraw them, I needed a motor that I knew had a good track record of being efficient and would give me the performance I wanted. The updated build list is:

    Lonex Shell
    Lonex Tappet
    VFC 8mm bushings
    Siegetek 10.44:1 gears
    ASG 28tpa motor
    VFC bearing spring guide
    Guarder SP110
    SHS 15t piston
    SHS Aluminum piston head w/ bearings
    VFC full cylinder
    VFC o-ring air nozzle
    ZCI aluminum cylinder head
    BTC Chimera fet
    Lonex hopup
    Lonex 50d bucking
    Prometheus 6.03 x 407mm barrel
    IR hop.

    It averages 335-338fps on .28s which translates to 1.46 - 1.48J, and 26rps on a fully charged lipo. With a 10ms precock, the trigger is lovely, any higher and it begins to double cycle. Accuracy wise, its darn near a tack driver with .28s. Buuuuuut, being the person I am, it could be faster ;) Dont get me wrong, 26 is very respectable, but it could be better. I've worked some numbers on various motor setups when paired with the 10:1 gears, and Ive settles on a 22tpa to get me where I want to be. With a 22tpa motor, I should be getting around 34 rps and still retain a decent amount of efficiency.

    I went ahead and built myself a 22tpa motor. Now you may be asking why I built one instead of buying one. Well, I have a few neodymium cans laying around and a pile of older motors sitting around begging to be ripped apart :). Besides, motors are a tad pricey at the moment and I have a few build to work on that are going to need some funds put into them. It took some trial and error to get it right, but the motor turned out pretty good.

    - Krytac can
    - VFC armature (oddly enough)
    - SHS Neo magnets
    - JG endbell
    - G&P motor bearings
    - ACM pinion (that is getting eaten alive by the Seigeteks...it just doesnt seem to mesh well)
    - SHS tower.
    - 2mm bullet connector mod. Because spade connectors break easy and suck. :p
    It gets me 34.4 rps on an 11.1v lipo. Not too shabby at all. There is just one teeny tiny issue....
    It cycles fine without a mag; it sounds smooth and clean. However, with a mag, it makes a horrendous grinding noise, but shoots perfectly fine. In my experience, there is only one thing that makes that noise.............PME. Why it hits PME only when a mag is in it is pretty confusing. Pulling it apart to check shows definitive wear on teeth 3, 5 and 8 on the piston, whereas the rest of the teeth are fine, so it is hitting PME. The only thing I can think of that is causing that is the backpressure from a chambered BB creating a bit of an "airbrake", slowing the piston down just enough for it to hit PME.

    Ive since ordered a few M120 and M130 springs to toy around with and a few new pinion gears to replace the one that is getting eaten up, as well as for a few future builds ;) I will be installing the beefier spring this evening and will update later.
     
    link0, BOA_SP3CT3R and Peeque like this.
  7. BOA_SP3CT3R

    BOA_SP3CT3R Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporting Member

    2,898
    1,707
    Bull Shoals
    Did you rewind the VFC arm? From what I've seen they're 19tpa. Looks like a very nice build, eventually I'd like to run something like it in my KA M&P MK18ish.
     
  8. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    I did not rewind the VFC arm. I've read they are between 19 and 22 tpa on ASM and ASF back in the day. These are the older ones, not any of the new ones.
     
  9. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    So, a few new developments:
    - installing the M120 and removing the bearings on the piston head have yielded the same results as the Guarder SP110 with PH bearings. The PME issue is now gone!
    - Frank at BTC will never hear the end of me... I have a few items that are in need of repairs, and once that happens, another build can start.
    - the motor turns into a pretty nice handwarmer rather quickly. This was to be expected given my setup, but it shouldn't be heating up as fast as it is.

    The SR16 currently chronos as follows on G&G non-bio 0.28s:

    337.5
    336.2
    335.7
    336.2
    336.3
    338.6 * (highest)
    337.8
    336.7
    336.1
    335.6
    336.2
    337.0
    334.8 * (lowest)
    335.6
    335.3
    337.5
    336.8
    336.7
    336.9
    336.7

    AVG: 336.51
    MAX DEV: 3.8

    So not too shabby at all. Chrono readings on BLS 0.32g rounds give around 300fps. The range and consistency on the .32's is equal if not better than on the .28s, despite the lower fps and joules behind each round. My end goal is to have it shooting as close to 1.5J on .32's as I can, which if my math is correct, equates to 317 fps. I did do some earlier calculations that if I were to add the bearings back onto the piston head, they give about a 20fps boost. That would be nearly dead-on to where I want it. Accounting for the eventual break-in of the spring, it should be a tad under that 1.5J threshold and be reasonably within fields' requirements near me; and not shooting crazy hot or packing too much of a punch.

    Will update later.
     
    Peeque, adas1223 and BOA_SP3CT3R like this.
  10. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

    1,545
    867
    stratford
    I may have to pick your brain on some of my future builds. Great read so far bruv
     
  11. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    There are a few items coming in for the SR16, G36, and M14. Namely a few electronics suites and hopup units. As I wait for the parts to come in, Im taking stock of the parts I have for each build. I think the G36 will be coming out nicely!
     
    Peeque likes this.
  12. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    USPS was generous today. Among the goodies were a Gate Titan and a new hop up for the M14. Some of you may be thinking, "wait a second, didn't he have a BTC fet in that SR16?", and you would be right. I sold it off and used the profit from that to pick up the Titan. So why the switch? Its not that the BTC fet was bad, in fact I've been lovingly using them for years, and have hoarded those that I have picked up. The fact of the matter is, BTC has been pretty slow to respond to customer inquiries for repair services and is lacking in aftermarket customer support. I've installed Titans in a few customer guns and have liked some of the features they have on them; and lets be honest, they are much easier to obtain, and Gate generally has better support as of late...

    Anywho, after installing and getting the Titan setup, I realized something... All of my (high-power) batteries are wired for XT60 plugs, and the Titan is wired for Deans. The dilemma is this: I can rewire the Titan to XT60, and void the warranty, OR, I rewire all six of my batteries. I have to rewire the Titan from the usual spade connectors to 2mm bullet plugs, so I'll be voiding the warranty anyway. I think to make life easier I'll just wire it up to XT60, and make a Deans-XT60 adapter so that I can still program the unit. I also re-installed the bearings onto the piston head. Hopefully the extra compression will give me the joule readings I want. Will test things in the morning and post results.

    Once this little project is done, I think I may start on the G36. So far, it looks like the next project that *shouldn't* take too much time. But seeing as how this is airsoft, I doubt that will be the case. :rolleyes:
     
    Peeque and BOA_SP3CT3R like this.
  13. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    UPDATE:
    The SR16 is being finicky. It seems that the selector isn't engaging the sensors quite right, and is leading to misfires and dud trigger pulls. Looks like I have some tuning to do to the Titan. I did manage to get a few sets of test data. Those are below:
    EDIT: It was the selector sensors misbehaving. Issue has been fixed.

    BLS 0.20g (ZCI M120, Bearing Spring guide + Piston head) Hopup OFF:

    401.6
    400.2
    400.7
    399.2
    401.2
    398.5 *
    400.3
    401.9
    400.7
    399.8
    399.4
    400.2
    402.4
    399.8
    402.3 *
    400.6
    400.8
    399.8
    399.2
    400.6

    AVG: 400.46 fps
    DEV: 3.8
    Joules: 1.489

    Now, here is where things get interesting:

    BLS 0.32 (ZCI M120, Bearing spring guide + Piston head) Hopup OFF:

    320.0 *
    323.7
    321.4
    322.9
    322.7
    322.8
    321.3
    322.3
    323.8 *
    323.4
    323.4
    322.0
    322.6
    322.0
    322.6
    322.6
    322.6
    321.8
    323.8
    321.6

    AVG: 322.465 fps
    DEV: 3.8
    Joules: 1.545J

    The 0.20g energy output is 1.49J, compared to the 032g 1.55; thats a 0.06J increase. While that may not sound like much, it actually matters quite a lot. That can be the difference between playing at a field or not. Luckily, my local fields' limit is 1.56J w/ .30g, and doing the math, I should still be under (but only by a hair). With .32g rounds and the hopup ON, results are also interesting. It chronos in at 309-312 fps, with the joules coming in at 1.45. The reduction in energy directly equates to the loss of velocity, yet it is shooting just a tad under what the .20g rounds do, despite these being 55% heavier. So, why does it do this? Im fairly certain it is the result of a phenomenon called Joule Creep. I won't go into the nitty gritty specifics of how it works, but I know why it is happening in my setup.

    My cylinder to barrel volume ratio is more than what is needed to propel the bb down and out of the barrel. The excess volume ends up putting more energy behind the bb for a longer period of time. This effect is not seen with the .20g rounds because they are too light. However, the heavier rounds have more mass, and thus require more energy to move them. The excess air behind each round is what gives the bbs that extra energy, combined with the additional mass, and you get a round that has the same (or similar) energy behind it as a much lighter one. The perks to this:
    - better range (when combined with a properly tuned hop setup)
    - better accuracy (generally speaking, but there are situations where too much extra air can cause rounds to fly off course)
    The only big downside is that your rounds are not traveling as fast as lighter ones. This doesn't matter in CQB as the distances are too short to make a quantifiable difference. However, at range, it can make a difference as your shots will take a tad longer to travel their distance to target.

    Ive posted a batch of results that the software has gathered from the Titan unit. Not bad at all if I do say so myself. My setup is:
    Riot 10.1 gears
    28 TPA motor
    M120 Spring.
    Capture.JPG

    I may just re-tune the motor and speed things up a tad ;) My batteries are 11.1v 2200mah, 30-60C and 40-50C discharge respectively. This setup is barely making them sweat.
     
    -Spitfire- and BOA_SP3CT3R like this.
  14. BOA_SP3CT3R

    BOA_SP3CT3R Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporting Member

    2,898
    1,707
    Bull Shoals
    Nice results, do you have a perfect air seal throughout everything? If so you should gain FPS due to pressure lock as more hop is applied.
     
  15. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    The entire system is perfectly sealed. I suspect the decrease in fps is attributed to the additional backspin pressure the Rhop is exerting on the bb.
     
  16. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    4,410
    2,151
    Oceanside
    Can you upload some audio from her? Curious about how her trigger response sounds.
     
  17. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    @-Spitfire- : here you go:

    Yes yes, I know there is some rust on the bolt and magazine release. I'll get around to cleaning it up and painting it over.
     
    -Spitfire-, JHat and BOA_SP3CT3R like this.
  18. link0

    link0 Well-Known Member

    1,348
    1,093
    SF Bay Area
    Damn fast trigger response!
     
  19. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    @link0 : you should see it in a firefight ;)
    The trigger is nice and snappy, surely not on the level of a DSG, but for what it is, its pretty good. It did everything I asked of it yesterday with no complaints. The only complaints were from those on the receiving end. I'll have to redo my range and accuracy tests tomorrow to see where things lie there. As of now, this project is done. Now to move on to the next! G36, or M14...?
     
    -Spitfire- and link0 like this.
  20. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    793
    858
    Ozark
    Where do I even begin???

    Things have been crazy the past while. Graduated college, job search, interviews, travel....
    I have managed to secure a job, the caveat being that I am moving half way across the country for it. Its a brand new start in a new state. I'm looking forward to it, but getting all of the logistics in order has taken a the majority of my time. That being said, does anyone know of any good fields in the Springfield, Missouri area? There is a small shop that would be local to me (thank god. there isn't s**t on a stick in northeast Ohio) and a few places in and around the Joplin area...

    Once I'm done moving and get settled in, things will resume. In the meantime, I have been busy picking up a few items ;) One additional BTC Chimera, and a 2014 VFC HK416C
     

    Attached Files: