Featured DSG Build Questions.....

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Jimps, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. Jimps

    Jimps Member

    150
    17
    Augusta
    I've built tons of SSG guns, 18:1, 12:1, 13:1........ Going to build a DSG, mostly for something to do and fun. Never had any troubles out of the guns I've built, so I definitely feel capable. Going to list the parts I'm thinking of using. If you see something wrong or have a better option, let me know.

    -Lonex compression set. Pom head, cylinder, cylinder head, nozzle.
    (the cylinder is ported at the very end, 8 teeth wont bring the piston that far back)
    -SHS steel rack swiss cheese piston
    -SHS tappet plate
    -8mm bushings Retro Arms
    -SP140? (not sure about spring)
    -SHS 16:1 gears with SHS DSG 8 tooth
    -Gate Aster
    -ASG 18k 28TPA
    -250ish mm barrel?
    Seems legit. I used an Aim Top hell-fire red piston in my 12:1 Not sure if that would be better.
    I used a Prometheus POM head in other guns, but 30$ to play around is steep. the whole Lonex set is only 38$. Any advice would be great. Thanks
     
  2. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

    794
    858
    Ozark
    Listed nowhere are the performance goals you want to achieve. Those will help us give you a better idea on specific parts. From what I see, the Asters have been having issues with software and arent as robust with more demanding builds as the Titan or other comparable units.

    You want a full cylinder for a DSG, especially with the 8t setup you are proposing.

    Ditch the Retro Arms bearings and go with a set of J-caged bearings or FLT bushings. RA bearings arent the same quality as J-caged and may not last as long as you hope.

    16:1 and a 28tpa motor wont be as fast as you think. By my estimate that should yield around 32-36 rps on a quality 11.1v lipo. Its easy to get an SSG running like that...


    For reference, the DSG I built a few years ago was as follows:

    Seigetek 10.44:1 9t gears
    21 tpa neo motor
    Guarder SP160
    BTC Chimera Mk2
    300mm 6.03mm steel barrel

    It shot ~380 fps on .20s @ ~52 rps on my 11.1v lipos
     

  3. Jimps

    Jimps Member

    150
    17
    Augusta
    Yea I don't care anything about RPS. Looking for a follow up shot response. Trigger response is nice on 12:1 SSG but semi spam is not as fast as DSG. Like I said just doing it really for something to do. Don't have much expectations or goals. I have a 20k 22TPA ASG, 18K 28TPA ASG and a 16TPA motor already. I've used the FLT bushings and the Retro Arms bushings, I have 200K shots on both. A steel bushing is a steel bushing. The Retro Arms are half the price for the exact same thing. Low profile hardened steel bushings. The porting on the cylinder is at the very back, the piston head wont make it to the ports, so no air loss.
     
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  4. Jimps

    Jimps Member

    150
    17
    Augusta
    Really I'm unsure about the spring, is a sp140 enough, around 330FPS? Is there a better bevel gear I can use? One with more ARL notches. The SHS ones have 5, is that fine? I've got one that has 8 notches and meshes fine but its got chipped teeth on it. Are the Lonex POM heads sufficient? Ill prob use the gate Titan, its like 30$ more money since I already have the Bluetooth module for my other guns.
     
    wetpee likes this.
  5. OPairoft

    OPairoft Active Member

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    Bend
    I would generally at minimum run a sp/m150. Depending on the barrel you will get anywhere from 280-350 fps generally (supposedly people have got about 400 from a sp150, but in my limited four builds, I don’t see how it’s possible unless the spring was mislabeled)
     
    kazuchan likes this.
  6. BeansOnToast

    BeansOnToast Member

    76
    9
    Seattle
    How do you find an sp/m rating? Is it at full cylinder? Half cylinder? Tight bore or wide bore? There are so many more variables that aren't explained

     
  7. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

    556
    333
    Yes ports on the cylinder behind maximum stroke do not matter, in fact I think it's a good idea for mitigating air restrictions when the piston is moving. I use 3/4 or 3/5 cylinders on my DSGs

    Agreed, you are looking at a ballpark of 35rps with these components. Bump your battery up to a 4s lipo and you'll see closer to 50

    While I cannot comment on specific recommendations but I do not think quantity of ratchets matters much as long as the ARL stops properly on all of them. if you go with a Titan it has cycle detection so that lessens the importance of this

    I assume if they are made with the same quality as Retro Arms or Prometheus they would be, those are the piston heads I use

    I hear this as a recommended starting point as well, M150 at the absolute least or SP150/M160. My DSGs all run M170s as I bought a whole bunch of different ones when building my first one, I adjust FPS with tooth count and barrel voluming.

    Jimps my only recommendation is to change the tappet plate out for something stiffer, the SHS nylon is a bit soft for a high speed build in my opinion. In my experience Lonex nylon is much stiffer, and Retro Arms does make a POM one but it is pricey due to it being CNC'd not just injection molded.
     
  8. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    17
    Augusta
    Anyone used the SHS Piston head? Its like 8 bucks. Good for standard low stress builds?
     
  9. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

    556
    333
    [​IMG]
    If you're talking about this one then yeah I use this on lower stress builds. Everywhere claims it's POM but the material is too soft so I think it's nylon which is fine. Clandestine still has a few GMT branded ones for less, the product itself is the same. The O-ring it comes with has been brown, probably Viton, for the last 4 or 5 I bought and it doesn't like to seal up well - I swap it to 70D NBR and get between 1-2% FPS variance with a good spring.

    https://www.brillarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40&products_id=95
    http://www.clandestineairsoft.com/piston-heads-c-1_6_20/gmt-pom-ball-bearing-piston-head-p-1180.html

    [​IMG]
    If you're talking about these aluminum ones, I use them in higher FPS but moderate RPS builds to help weight the piston. I've had problems with it rubbing the sides of G&G cylinders but other builds have done fine with them, 2% FPS variance with a good spring and O-ring swap. You can also get it attached to a piston for $12 from Clandestine.

    https://www.brillarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40&products_id=126
    http://www.clandestineairsoft.com/p...ball-bearing-aluminum-piston-head-p-1179.html
    http://www.clandestineairsoft.com/p...-piston-with-aluminum-piston-head-p-1133.html

    [​IMG]
    Brill also got these in, new shape and not anodized red anymore. They are alright, with terrible milling flash left on the porting that needs to be cleaned out before it rips into the O-ring. I used this paired with a stock piston in a Lancer Tac M4v2 recently, got it down to around 2% FPS variance as well.

    https://www.brillarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41&products_id=193
     
  10. Duke0540

    Duke0540 New Member

    2
    0
    Hattiesburg
    I’m sorry to jumó in like this, what type of magazines are y’all using for high speed builds? The ones I have won’t feed past 25rps. I’d sure appreciate the advice before I go and buy mags till I find the right one
     
  11. Duke0540

    Duke0540 New Member

    2
    0
    Hattiesburg
  12. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

    556
    333
    I've had good luck with PTS EPMs, the originals. I haven't tried the new EPM1s yet but hopefully that spring that can break speedloaders is good for something. Someone on our field runs flash mags of an unknown brand on their DSG and it runs well.
     
  13. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    6,759
    4,091
    Minneapolis
    None of the "cheap" China mags have strong springs.

    These would be WELL, JG, AGM, ACM branded mags...

    Get Taiwan, Hong Kong or even Japanese mags if you want solid feeding

    Azimuth, DDAY, Lonex, Tokyo Marui, VFC, PTS branded mags...
     
  14. BeansOnToast

    BeansOnToast Member

    76
    9
    Seattle
    Planning on boosting my gun to 40 rps max, any suggestions for a piston head while we're talking about them?
     
  15. OPairoft

    OPairoft Active Member

    158
    63
    Bend
    Lonex Pom is generally the go to piston head.
     
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  16. BeansOnToast

    BeansOnToast Member

    76
    9
    Seattle
    Thanks!

     
  17. Jimps

    Jimps Member

    150
    17
    Augusta
    I got the EPM1 mags. You def have to break them in. You will not get 250 bbs in the first time you load it. I got 4 and they were all like that. 28RPS is the highest ROF gun I have. No miss feeds so far.
     
  18. Jimps

    Jimps Member

    150
    17
    Augusta
    Since a DSG pulls piston back half way, is a linear spring needed? Non-linear springs are softer at the start of pull. Or does it not matter.
     
  19. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    6,759
    4,091
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    Ideally you should be using a linear spring. If you have a variable pitch...just reverse it. But, that will only do so much because you have a softer section on that spring.
     
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  20. Jimps

    Jimps Member

    150
    17
    Augusta
    spring.jpg
    This is the spring, website said SHS spring. Never heard of this company. Probably OEM by SHS. The irregular pitch is not very drastic like I have seen on some other springs. M170
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021