Featured DSG Build Questions.....

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Jimps, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

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    50/50

    You either get it or you don't :cool:
     
  2. BeansOnToast

    BeansOnToast Member

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    Let me know how it goes.
     

  3. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    Not a good start...... This was the original gearbox with a M120 on it. Was putting the gear box together, then saw this when I went to put the spring in. Lucky I saw it. What if it broke while I had it out doing first test shots with a M170 behind it. Cheap *** pot metal. If the spring guide broke before I even put the M170 in, what is a M170 going to do to the front of the gearbox. They make a steel end cap to replace it. I'm going to order that to put in my 12:1 M120 gun since it was a M120 that broke this one. Lucky Retro Arms has VFC Avalon 7075 CNC billet Aluminum ones in stock right now. Ordering one now, and hoping it is not stuck in customs for a month like something else I ordered from across the pond. LOL.jpg
     
  4. BeansOnToast

    BeansOnToast Member

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    That's unfortunate, I hope you don't run into a stupid roadblock like that next time
     
  5. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

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    Im going to give you a do-over on this one. At least its not hanging out of your wall..not that I would know from experience... ;)
     
  6. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    Well when I went to swap the DSG gearbox with the current SSG, I saw this... Humm.jpg Guess they had so many problems they changed to a steel guide. That is a relief.

    I got it put together. It feeds fine in the test shots, need to test it some more though. My FPS is way way way way way way higher than I thought though. I getting 380FPS with .25s bbs. I got an M170 spring, and I cut almost 2 coils off of it. I heated and flattened it, then grinded it flat. It sounds great so far. Feeding and FPS seem to work fine. Did not think I would be that high in the FPS range though. Can I put a lighter spring in there? Its not a 60 RPS gun. Going to use either the AGS 22k 22TPA motor, or the 28TPA 18K motor.
     
  7. BeansOnToast

    BeansOnToast Member

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    My unresearched opinion would be sure. If your not getting 60 rps and you want a lower fps why not. The only other option would be short stroking but I don't think you want to do that with a half cylinder volume.
     
  8. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    First DSG build, Not sure how much using heavy spring has to do with FPS vs PME. If I use a lighter spring It could have higher RPS, will that lead to PME? I need to drop 50FPS. I need to be at 330FPS with .25 bbs. Will a M160 be 50-60 FPS lower than an M170 I cut 2 coils off of?
     
  9. ma_airsoft

    ma_airsoft Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I want to say the test for PME is doing a burst on the chrono with an 11,1 and then a 7,4. If the fps changes youve got a pme issue (this is assuming your chrono can read bursts).

    In my opinion on a high TPA setup like that I think you could get away with an SP150 without issue assuming you arent running a crazy battery. I ran an SP150 in my old avalon DSG and my piston survived fine (22tpa asg, shs 8t, stock vfc gearset).

    Something to consider is that the spring may settle lower as it appears to be an shs. Considering youre cut, Im not sure on how itll settle. Doubt youll lose 60fps but its something to consider as you test.
     
  10. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    Also, don't know if this makes a difference or not. I put the spring in a gearbox and pre cocked it for almost a week. Don't know if that is enough time for it to settle or not. I've left my guns pre cocked for over a month with no FPS loss. They do drop a bit from new though.
     
  11. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Concise question and comment:

    Why ASG?

    Depends on the spring maker.
     
  12. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    Using ASG motors, mainly to justify building the DSG to start with. "Well, I got the motors and gears laying around, also a gearbox." I've got well over a million shots combined on the ASG motors I've used without ever having a problem. I've used SHS, Lonex, and ZCI motors as well. Had these laying around, they seem dependable....

    Why do you eat the same thing every time you go to a restaurant? The other food might be better. Its the same kind of thing I guess. I bought those motors for semi only guns. Did not need fast motors, just some torque. I buy most all my parts from one place and the other options they had in stock did not suite me well. I'm not an ASG fanboy or anything. Since then, I've used them multiple times with the results I expected and wanted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021 at 9:58 AM
  13. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    Well something is wrong. The gun sounds good. It is super quiet, gearbox wise. It does not sound like it it struggling at all. All you hear is that DSG crack out the end of the barrel. Problem is, I'm only getting 15 RPS in full auto, lol. Gears were smooth and spun freely with little resistance. Maybe my bevel to pinion? The motor is 18K motor ASG, but I got 17-20 RPS with SSG. Spring just to heavy? It was labeled M170, and I cut 2 coils off. Im getting like 380 FPS with .25s. Just weird that it sounds normal. I ordered the Retro Arms VFC gearbox yesterday. Crazy the tracking says it will be here Monday. So I'm going to take it apart and swap over anyway. What should I look for?

    Worlds slowest DSG, YES! I did it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021 at 2:26 AM
  14. ma_airsoft

    ma_airsoft Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    my first guess is a bad battery.

    from there im gonna say bad motor.

    Grab a video and upload it when you get a chance. Don’t pull it apart quite yet.

    Edit: RESET THE SETTINGS ON THE ASTER. I’ve had titans go into a weird safemode before, typically in conjunction with the E07? error for a dirty sector sensor
     
  15. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    I'm using a Gate Titan, just had a selector switch error. I cleared that. Tried different batteries. I could try another motor. Ill video it after work.
     
  16. ma_airsoft

    ma_airsoft Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    were you running active braking? I’ve seen performance drops from 30 rps to about 12 rps from build up on the commutator but that’s usually after thousands of rounds
     
  17. Jimps

    Jimps Member

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    So, I'm guessing It is a battery/spring issue. I misread my battery. Only 35 amps max output. Sold my other batteries to guns I worked on. They were only 45 amp batteries anyway. Don't think that is enough, lol. I'm pulling a M170 spring, I did cut 2 coils off but I need to drop about 50-60 FPS. Going to get a M160 instead. The motor I have is 28TPA 18k RPM. That is pretty slow. Add all that up and you get about 17RPS in a DSG. Getting the Retro Arms gearbox. It will be here this coming up week. Ill have to order a M160 spring. Found a battery 2400mAh 30/50C that will fit my stock. That is 72 amps. That should be fine? Going to put the 22TPA 22k motor in it as well. Its 16:1 8 tooth, don't need the 28TPA really.