SHS high strength polycarbonate (already SC) is great, but you're gonna have to SS it down to 8 teeth. In terms of piston head, just use the stock one that came on your gun. Don't use aluminum heads because they can be too heavy, causing PME. If your cylinder is ported, you can just keep it. Matrix silent cylinder head works all right (kind of a pain to cram into the cylinder because of the double o-rings, but good compression). For a DSG, your spring should be AT LEAST an m150. Otherwise, be prepared to deal with some fun PME. I think you're better off with an ASG 30k instead of 40k, as it's got more torque, making it last longer pulling an m150. I think 40k will get strained more easily. Also get the gate quantum 1A1 trigger (~$25) because I've heard of stock trigger compatibility issues with the gate aster unit specifically. Good luck on your build.
DSG Build
Hey! My motor just burnt up and I've been wanting to do a DSG for quite a while. Decided that this would be as good a time as any to do a it.
I am hoping to get 40-65 rps @ 350-400 fps with 11.1v
[edit: inner barrel is a bit over 240mm and is 6.03mm in diameter]
[4/12/22 update: Parts on the way.]
Parts:
ASG ultimate boost 30k rpm
SHS 16:1 gears
SHS DSG
VFC Version 2 ECS Avalon Gearbox
Gate aster [opted for perun v2 hybrid]
(Some people have had issues with the aster's censors,
but with a little tape it shouldn't be a issue)
Matrix Irregular Pitch m120 spring (360~420fps) [S150]
Suggestions/recommendations would be appreciated for:
Piston [SHS 14 tooth]
Piston Head [Real Deal Airsoft piston head]
Cylinder [stock]
Cylinder Head [Stock with plumbers tape]
Any and all other suggestions are appreciated! Thanks in advance!
I am hoping to get 40-65 rps @ 350-400 fps with 11.1v
[edit: inner barrel is a bit over 240mm and is 6.03mm in diameter]
[4/12/22 update: Parts on the way.]
Parts:
ASG ultimate boost 30k rpm
SHS 16:1 gears
SHS DSG
VFC Version 2 ECS Avalon Gearbox
Gate aster [opted for perun v2 hybrid]
(Some people have had issues with the aster's censors,
but with a little tape it shouldn't be a issue)
Matrix Irregular Pitch m120 spring (360~420fps) [S150]
Suggestions/recommendations would be appreciated for:
Piston [SHS 14 tooth]
Piston Head [Real Deal Airsoft piston head]
Cylinder [stock]
Cylinder Head [Stock with plumbers tape]
Any and all other suggestions are appreciated! Thanks in advance!
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Matrix springs are Garbage...do not buy Matrix springs. It's an Evike House Brand and they are the lowest quality parts around.
And you can find better motors other than rebranded Star Wei's for less...(ASG Motors).
And you can find better motors other than rebranded Star Wei's for less...(ASG Motors).
I agree those springs will shatter. Also you need to check your math because with the pasts list you have it calculates to 83 rounds per second. Too high to run without burning out or pme.
The 30k Motor would be better.
Also a dsg doesn't pull a spring back all the way, meaning you'll need a higher rated spring such as a m150 or even m180. With that part list and motor the piston will likely remain back from pme entirely.
But with that stress you need to make sure you have a metal cylinder head, perfect air seal, aoe, radius the shell, and padding on the cylinder head as well.
It's good that you made a post. Hope all the info helps ya with the build.
The 30k Motor would be better.
Also a dsg doesn't pull a spring back all the way, meaning you'll need a higher rated spring such as a m150 or even m180. With that part list and motor the piston will likely remain back from pme entirely.
But with that stress you need to make sure you have a metal cylinder head, perfect air seal, aoe, radius the shell, and padding on the cylinder head as well.
It's good that you made a post. Hope all the info helps ya with the build.
What's your inner barrel length and diameter?
Piston - Lonex Blue or Red. Blue is a little more forgiving, the material is softer and if you do get PME I'd rather have a blue in the gearbox than a red. That said, red is a much tougher material and if not the piston you build with now it might be the one you swap in later / for the long haul. SHS 14t is often recommended but personally I prefer a polymer pickup as it's not as 'shocking' as a metal-on-metal pickup in a high RPS build.
Piston Head - Laylax POM NEO is about the best I'm aware of. Light, excellent seal, and can take a real beating. The Lonex POM w/ an aluminum insert is a good choice as well, but personally I don't care for the extra weight nor having the head be a two-piece design if I'm going to be beating on it. Avoid the clones on evike, you get what you pay for.
Side note - bearings on the piston. A lot of folks will tell you not to run them, and for good reason (extra weight) but I personally found that tuning my DSG to run with bearings on both ends of the spring gave me a ~6% increase in RPS - well worth the extra effort! YMMV of course.
Cylinder - This one depends on the barrel and who you're asking. I have a ported cylinder in my DSG because my barrel is extremely short (~140mm) and as I don't need the extra volume the port allows the piston to return a bit quicker than it would otherwise - helping me avoid PME. Some will tell you that a non-ported cylinder is needed always since you're only using half the cylinder etc - which is true, but only if your barrel is long enough to need that much air! Volume matching is still a thing, even in a DSG build lol.
Cylinder Head - Personally prefer the Maxx cylinder head. Lonex would be a good second choice. The dampener on the Maxx is thinner and a little harder, the one on the Lonex is wider and a little softer. Harder is better over ~40rps in my opinion since there's less deformation in the dampener which means it's not as likely to get torn apart. Do not stick a sorbo pad in there - it will get torn the shreds.
Springs - a standard 'regular pitch' spring will probably be best for your build (assuming carbine length barrel) as the compression is more linear start to finish, but it is possible to run an irregular pitched spring if you use a spacer or bearing on both ends to increase the compression on it a bit. Adding a washer to the spring guide can be used to make small FPS gains - but don't add more than ~7mm and really watch out for binding. Modify SP springs seem to hold up pretty well, I've got a few seasons on an SP140 w/o issue.
ECU/ETU - do yourself a huge favor and get a programmable ETU in there. Aster is ok, Perun Hybrid would be my recommendation - being able to adjust the AB and precocking on your gun, not to mention that particular ETU having a DSG setting to aid in cycle detection, will make for a much MUCH better first DSG experience.
First build - pay extra close attention to your shimming, it really matters. Lube everything lightly, including the spring and inside the piston. Understand why you're trimming your tappet plate, not just that it needs to be trimmed some arbitrary amount. Get a strong tappet plate spring in there. Once it's assembled, test it with a 7.4v lipo so you can make sure there's no issues with the drivetrain; adjust the motor height at this time; run 2-3 full mags through the gun in semi on 7.4v and listen for anything that sounds wrong; after 2-3 mags, give it a burst of full auto on 7.4v and listen to your gun - if it's hurting, it'll tell you. If all that goes smooth, pop in an 11.1v and run a mag through in semi; fine tune the motor height; LISTEN TO YOUR GUN! If everything is solid, feels solid, sounds solid... flip the fun switch and go vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Piston - Lonex Blue or Red. Blue is a little more forgiving, the material is softer and if you do get PME I'd rather have a blue in the gearbox than a red. That said, red is a much tougher material and if not the piston you build with now it might be the one you swap in later / for the long haul. SHS 14t is often recommended but personally I prefer a polymer pickup as it's not as 'shocking' as a metal-on-metal pickup in a high RPS build.
Piston Head - Laylax POM NEO is about the best I'm aware of. Light, excellent seal, and can take a real beating. The Lonex POM w/ an aluminum insert is a good choice as well, but personally I don't care for the extra weight nor having the head be a two-piece design if I'm going to be beating on it. Avoid the clones on evike, you get what you pay for.
Side note - bearings on the piston. A lot of folks will tell you not to run them, and for good reason (extra weight) but I personally found that tuning my DSG to run with bearings on both ends of the spring gave me a ~6% increase in RPS - well worth the extra effort! YMMV of course.
Cylinder - This one depends on the barrel and who you're asking. I have a ported cylinder in my DSG because my barrel is extremely short (~140mm) and as I don't need the extra volume the port allows the piston to return a bit quicker than it would otherwise - helping me avoid PME. Some will tell you that a non-ported cylinder is needed always since you're only using half the cylinder etc - which is true, but only if your barrel is long enough to need that much air! Volume matching is still a thing, even in a DSG build lol.
Cylinder Head - Personally prefer the Maxx cylinder head. Lonex would be a good second choice. The dampener on the Maxx is thinner and a little harder, the one on the Lonex is wider and a little softer. Harder is better over ~40rps in my opinion since there's less deformation in the dampener which means it's not as likely to get torn apart. Do not stick a sorbo pad in there - it will get torn the shreds.
Springs - a standard 'regular pitch' spring will probably be best for your build (assuming carbine length barrel) as the compression is more linear start to finish, but it is possible to run an irregular pitched spring if you use a spacer or bearing on both ends to increase the compression on it a bit. Adding a washer to the spring guide can be used to make small FPS gains - but don't add more than ~7mm and really watch out for binding. Modify SP springs seem to hold up pretty well, I've got a few seasons on an SP140 w/o issue.
ECU/ETU - do yourself a huge favor and get a programmable ETU in there. Aster is ok, Perun Hybrid would be my recommendation - being able to adjust the AB and precocking on your gun, not to mention that particular ETU having a DSG setting to aid in cycle detection, will make for a much MUCH better first DSG experience.
First build - pay extra close attention to your shimming, it really matters. Lube everything lightly, including the spring and inside the piston. Understand why you're trimming your tappet plate, not just that it needs to be trimmed some arbitrary amount. Get a strong tappet plate spring in there. Once it's assembled, test it with a 7.4v lipo so you can make sure there's no issues with the drivetrain; adjust the motor height at this time; run 2-3 full mags through the gun in semi on 7.4v and listen for anything that sounds wrong; after 2-3 mags, give it a burst of full auto on 7.4v and listen to your gun - if it's hurting, it'll tell you. If all that goes smooth, pop in an 11.1v and run a mag through in semi; fine tune the motor height; LISTEN TO YOUR GUN! If everything is solid, feels solid, sounds solid... flip the fun switch and go vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Lonex Blue is PolyCarbonate
Lonex Red is POM
Lonex Red is POM
Thank you for your reply! My inner barrel is right around 240mm and 6.03mm in diameter.What's your inner barrel length and diameter?
Barrel is good, shouldn't have to much trouble hitting your goals
Who made the barrel, what material is it? Is there a coating on it? How is the finish, glass smooth with the refraction test or can you see machining marks?Thank you for your reply! My inner barrel is right around 240mm and 6.03mm in diameter.
I have seen Action "6.03mm" barrels with a horrendous finish on them. You could see scratches and a spiral, which says they pulled it off the mill to fast and then didn't finish the surface after the initial bore...it short horribly...
Not sure who made it, but it's made of brass, it looks nicely polished and free of any damage.Who made the barrel, what material is it? Is there a coating on it? How is the finish, glass smooth with the refraction test or can you see machining marks?
Someone will probably correct me, but imho a brand new brass barrel with no clear blemishes will work. Definitely not your best option. If you're serious, consider a madbull or prometheus barrel. Madbull is a bit cheaper.
Brass isn't bad at all.
Better than a coated Al barrel
Better than a coated Al barrel
The marks inside a barrel that look like ripples is not from machining. They use a floating center rod and press in the outside to the rod to form the bore. If it has worn out edges or is imperfect it will cause those ripples.
I may be wrong but last I checked that is how they make barrels in general. At least stainless ones.
Also the issue with coated barrels is the fact lube filled with hardened steel dust from the gearbox gets into the lube and then thrown into the barrel, which is then crushed and dragged down the bore when shot. Most this wear is right under the barrel window. For a brass a quick polish does the trick, for stainless lapping is an option, but aluminum or coated brass, not so much.
Ive also seen barrels peel inside.
I may be wrong but last I checked that is how they make barrels in general. At least stainless ones.
Also the issue with coated barrels is the fact lube filled with hardened steel dust from the gearbox gets into the lube and then thrown into the barrel, which is then crushed and dragged down the bore when shot. Most this wear is right under the barrel window. For a brass a quick polish does the trick, for stainless lapping is an option, but aluminum or coated brass, not so much.
Ive also seen barrels peel inside.
What about a PDI? They are cold hammer forged, or at least thats what they say...
https://simpleairsoft.com/products/pdi-6-05-cold-hammer-forged-steel-247mm?variant=33235030769741
https://simpleairsoft.com/products/pdi-6-05-cold-hammer-forged-steel-247mm?variant=33235030769741
But, I was under the impression is was actually "drilled".
I wish I had that link that showed how they made brass barrels...I know my terminology is misapplied and a formal video and nomenclature would be appreciated.
Hammer forging is how the rifling is put in...and as a side effect how the barrel length and shape comes out.
I wish I had that link that showed how they made brass barrels...I know my terminology is misapplied and a formal video and nomenclature would be appreciated.
Hammer forging is how the rifling is put in...and as a side effect how the barrel length and shape comes out.
Brass is perfectly fine unless there's quality issues or damage. It does tarnish over time, but as was noted its easy to polish. I've had good luck with Lambda barrels although they are nickel-plated steel which has some drawbacks. Lonex barrels are great but the last couple I've gotten have been absolutely packed with what I assume was dried machining oil.
Nickle plated steel?
Ummm...no they are not.
LAMBDA ONE 420mm Steel 6.01 Precision Barrel for AEG Replicas
Highest-quality precision barrel with a diameter of 6.01 mm made of SUS304 stainless steel in Japan. Barrels by LAMBDA are manufactured using very precise CNC machines as well as manually finished and individually tested
Ummm...no they are not.
LAMBDA ONE 420mm Steel 6.01 Precision Barrel for AEG Replicas
Highest-quality precision barrel with a diameter of 6.01 mm made of SUS304 stainless steel in Japan. Barrels by LAMBDA are manufactured using very precise CNC machines as well as manually finished and individually tested
Their 'smart' line of barrels is nickel-plated plated steel, their stainless barrels are... well, stainless lol
Well...isn't details wonderful?
When it's defined on what you discuss, it helps everyone.
They have many barrels of assorted desgns and only of SS-304.
https://lambda-japan.com/shopbrand/ct2/
Looks like they have long discontinued the Smart Carbon Steel Nickel Barrel. Not a single mention of that material at all...and quite honestly, not and ideal material and finish to make a barrel in...
When it's defined on what you discuss, it helps everyone.
They have many barrels of assorted desgns and only of SS-304.
https://lambda-japan.com/shopbrand/ct2/
Looks like they have long discontinued the Smart Carbon Steel Nickel Barrel. Not a single mention of that material at all...and quite honestly, not and ideal material and finish to make a barrel in...
They are widely avaliable and marketed as lambda 'nickle plated steel' or 'carbon steel' barrels - a quick Google will find them.
Carbon steel is less flexible than stainless and more wear resistant. That said, there are some drawbacks - which lambda fixed with a nickle coating, which has some draw backs of its own. I've had pretty good luck with them though, as was said.
Carbon steel is less flexible than stainless and more wear resistant. That said, there are some drawbacks - which lambda fixed with a nickle coating, which has some draw backs of its own. I've had pretty good luck with them though, as was said.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
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