Featured G&G Full Metal GC-16 Raider Upgrades

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Matman, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Matman

    Matman Member

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    I purchased the G&G Full Metal GC-16 a month or so ago from Evike. It came to me pretty loose; buffer tube, rails, outer barrel front section fell off. I got everything nice and tight now though. After stripping the spring guide, I replaced it with a Lonex ball bearing type. So I've been in the gear box and feel comfortable working on the thing. I've also upgraded to Deans.
    I took it out last weekend and it did good. I defiantly want better trigger response and maybe a small bump in the ROF, my chrono says 13.5rps currently; I wouldn't mind low twenty's.
    I ordered a Lonex metal hop up I'm going to pair with a G&G green bucking and flat hop. I also ordered a SHS high torque motor, I know at 16TPA people say it's not really high torque. I'm hoping it will help with my trigger response and rate of fire a bit over the stock motor.
    Ive been reading a lot about the G&Gs doing fine stock but having problems with internals once you start upgrading them. Have I started down a road of pain by getting this motor? Should I just start ordering upgraded internals now?
    I'm probably going to keep the stock spring as it currently gets around 345-349fps with .20s and 299-305fps with .25s, I still want to meet regs at the field. I plan on AOE correction and have been looking at the Gate Titan, I'm so close to hitting the buy button on that it's not funny. I'm also thinking about the Prometheus EG Tight Bore to pair with the Lonex hopup.
    My goal is to turn this thing into a super reliable, responsive, accurate beast. I want to get into mill sim so crazy ROF and super high FPS is probably not something I'm shooting for, yup I said that.
    Any suggestions from more experienced airsofters to help me reach my goals with this gun would be appreciated.
     
  2. Hangtight

    Hangtight Well-Known Member

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    Pair the SHS HT with SHS 13:1 gears and a good 7.4v lipo. G&g gearbox bushes are soft, so replace them with SHS enhanced. A stock Cyma piston (full metal rack) is cheap and tough. SHS POM piston head with the Cyma O ring gives a good seal with low friction. The Gate Titan is awesome. It's getting expensive because I want them in all my guns! Don't bother with the programming card. If you've got an Android device then just use the USB link for access to all the functions. The above set up with the pre cocking on the Titan will give instant trigger response, fast cycle time, 20rps and not be stressed, even with rapid semi auto fire.
    The EG barrel is good, but think about a flat hop or R hop for efficiency with heavier BBs (0.28g is good at 1.13J). You also want to ensure you have the right cylinder /barrel ratio. With 0.28g BBs and a full cylinder with AOE corrected then 363mm gives about 2.6:1 which works.
     

  3. Matman

    Matman Member

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    I just installed the SHS HT, went from 13rps to 17rps not spectacular but a bump up for sure. I'm ok with 17rps, when I'm done though if I end up with 20ish that's ok too. The trigger response is marginally better over the stock motor but I was expecting more. My gearbox has stock bearings and not bushings, I read mixed reviews on this. Opinions? Should I still replace them with SHS enhanced?
    I do plan on a flat hop, possibly doing that this weekend. As for the cylinder/barrel ratio, I will have to do some research on that, I've not read anything on it yet. I do want to stay stock 363mm barrel length though.
     
  4. Matman

    Matman Member

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    Since I have to crack the gear box for the Titan, may as well do everything else too. Seeing as how I hear that G&Gs internals go to crap once upgrading starts. Here is my build list for super reliable, max trigger response, around 20rps, 350ish fps, descent groupings at 150 feet

    1.) Stock Spring, M120 I think (Raider High Velocity Version)
    2.) Gate Titan Mosfet
    3.) VFC Metal Selector Plate
    4.) Promy EG, 363mm barrel
    5.) Lonex Hopup, flat hopped
    6.) SHS HT Motor
    7.) Cyma Poly Piston, metal rack, AOE Adjusted of course
    8.) Lonex POM Ventilation Piston Head
    9.) Lonex Cylinder Head, (not sure about this one, I heard they don't work well in G&G. not sure I really need to replace this anyway)
    10.) SHS 13:1 Gears
    11.) SHS/DA 8,, Steel Bushings
    12.) Lonex Anti-Reversal Latch
    13.) G&P Ultra Shims
    14.) Lonex Spring Guide

    That should get it done? Should I be looking into a better tappet plate? I'll end up going lipo at some point im sure. Good build??
     
  5. MF CORY OH

    MF CORY OH New Member

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    Hellshollow
    Not trying to steal any thunderbut I have a backup gun (g and g cm16) that refuses to eat BBs from anything but the factory high cap. I’ve tried all the tricks lol(Velcro magwell, taped Mags, orings, upside down firing, etc) I’m a noob at teching so any advice or ideas would be tatas
     
  6. Matman

    Matman Member

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    Now I've done it, I installed the Lonex hopup and flat hoped the G&G green bucking, the eraser nub was a real pain. Got everything sealed up, teflon tape, the works. Now i'm shooting 381-387fps with .20s and 338-341fps with .25s. Lol, I actually didn't want the high fps; I can't play at the arena over 350fps. May have to install a different spring. I was shooting consistent 345-349fps with .20s and 299-305fps with .25s through the stock hop up, that I sealed up with the teflon tape as well. I wasn't expecting the Lonex to give me such a boost.
    Not sure how the flat hops going to perform until tomorrow when I can take it outside. I'm not sure I got the nub right. Here's a picture of my flat hop all the way on. Flat Hop.jpg
     
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  7. Hangtight

    Hangtight Well-Known Member

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    More important is whether the hop protrudes into the barrel with the hop all the way off. The flat hop is a lot more effective at transferring back spin, so you will find that it is barely visible down the barrel when you find the sweet spot. But your nub looks good from the shape of the hop.
    M100 will get you up to 350fps now you've got a proper air seal.
    A cylinder head combination that works is SHS with a SHS single O ring air nozzle. But if you're getting a good seal with the stock stuff, then no need to replace it.
    Your build list looks good. Add Superlube. You'll want to radius the gearbox shell. For an M100 spring then you can do the AOE adjustment with faucet washers glue to the inside of the cylinder head. You'll need to grind the piston rack for AOE but do this with it out of the piston, then epoxy it in place once everything is good. Don't forget to Loctite the piston head screw.
    Decided on batteries yet? The Titan is only set up for lipo. NiMh will drop voltage enough to trigger the low voltage cutoff. Trying to remember if you can actually disable that function.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  8. Matman

    Matman Member

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    The hop does not protrude into the barrel with it all the way off. I'm going to test it right now. As for the lipo; if the Titan requires them then I will have to switch. I'm weighing the costs, guess I should just get it over with and drop the cash. It's a lot of money all at once to do all the above mentioned upgrades. I'm guessing in the 350.00 to 400.00 range, somehow it seems less painful to space out the purchases, though probably more money in the long run with shipping and such.
    If I wanna turn this thing into top techish I gotta pay...lol..I know the G&Gs (CM's) get a lot of crap but I think the externals are awesome and with it being full metal it's a great platform to upgrade, though others may disagree.
    Thank you for your advise Hangtight, I'm listening for sure. This forum is great, I'm really learning a lot here. I found Zardichar's Collection of Guides for Airsoft Teching, great stuff there!!!!
     
  9. Matman

    Matman Member

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    Tried out my flat hop. I'm not really impressed. I was using just a red dot, standing up, a little rainy so I wasn't expecting pin pointy accuracy; this is what I got. At 100' I can pretty consistently hit a 8.5"x11" sheet of paper, with the occasional flyer. At 110' I can still hit the paper but with less consistency, and the occasional flyer. At 140' I'm hitting in the general area of the paper consistently, with an occasional hit and the occasional flyer. The gun can probably shoot 180' but not sure of hitting anything accurately at that distance.
    It feels like I could have gotten a small increase in performance as far as the BB traveling forward with more authority, but it's hard to tell if that wasn't the 42fps increase I got due to a better air seal. I feel like things were more consistent with just the stock G&G Green bucking. I have a brand new spare I might put in so I can compare.
    What about manufactured flat hop nubs? I hear good things about the RA Maple Leaf; I might try that.
     
  10. Hangtight

    Hangtight Well-Known Member

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    What weight BBs?
    And when you flat hopped the hop rubber did you take the location ridge off as well as the mound? It works best if you can turn the hop rubber so there's a fresh, unsanded section over the hop window.
     
  11. Matman

    Matman Member

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    I'm using .25s. Yes, I removed the mound and the ridge; then turned the bucking sideways so there would be clean contact with the BB.
     
  12. Hangtight

    Hangtight Well-Known Member

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    Try some 0.28g. Bit more range, a lot more accuracy.
     
  13. Matman

    Matman Member

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    I'll try them. But having to use .28s to make my flat hop effective? I would think .25s should be doing better than what they did. Not being able to hit an 8.5"x11" piece of paper at 140' with any kind of remote consistency? Is that normal for stock barrel, Lonex hop, flat hop G&G bucking, shooting .25s @ 341fps? I wish I had done more testing at the 150' mark before I started upgrading so I could tell how I'm doing a little better. I will try .28s though. Also, I think I'm going to install my spare G&G bucking into the lonex hop and see how it shoots at the 150' mark. I made my flat hop nub with an eraser and a cut pen tube so I didn't have to sand down my hop arm, so it's easy to go back for some testing.
     
  14. Matman

    Matman Member

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    1.) Stock Spring, M120 I think (Raider High Velocity Version)
    2.) Gate Titan Mosfet
    3.) VFC Metal Selector Plate
    4.) Promy EG, 363mm barrel
    5.) Lonex Hopup, flat hopped
    6.) SHS HT Motor
    7.) Cyma Poly Piston, metal rack, AOE Adjusted of course
    8.) Lonex POM Ventilation Piston Head
    9.) Lonex Cylinder Head, (not sure about this one, I heard they don't work well in G&G. not sure I really need to replace this anyway)
    10.) SHS 13:1 Gears
    11.) SHS/DA 8,, Steel Bushings
    12.) Lonex Anti-Reversal Latch
    13.) G&P Ultra Shims
    14.) Lonex Spring Guide

    Ordered everything but the promy eg and the piston head,should be installing next weekend. Added a sorbo pad in case I may need it. The Lonex spring guide and hop up is installed as is the shs ht. I got some .28s I will try tomorrow with the flat hop.
     
    BOA_SP3CT3R likes this.
  15. Matman

    Matman Member

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    ok, so I experimented with .25s, and .28s today with my flat hop and with the regular G&G green bucking reinstalled. To tell you the truth I feel like I have more consistency and better grouping without the flat hop. The .28s were...meh...they were slower of course, probably a bit more accurate; I think the .25s are striking a better balance between speed and accuracy with my gun as it is now. As far as the flat hop; the only thing I notice about that is it takes less movement on the dial to equal more hop, there's no real noticeable increase in range. The max range I would say I am getting is around 200' unless I turn the hop way up and lob it. At 200' I'm not hitting an 8.5"x11" sheet of paper consistently but I can hit a man size target for sure and I guess that what counts...lol.
    I have a maple leaf flat nub coming, maybe pairing that with the promy eg and .28s will get me a little closer to where I want to be. I know this isn't real steel and it's only going to get so accurate. But I'm sure it gets better than inconsistent 8.5"x11" sheet of paper at 200'......or I could just be a crappy shot...:eek:
     
  16. Hangtight

    Hangtight Well-Known Member

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    Hitting a bloke sized target at 60+metres... not bad at all. Flat hops work better with some shape hop windows than others, but it's not something I've done a lot of work on. You could try tuning the shape /dimensions of the flat hop to the position /size of the hop window. It sort of needs a bit of clearance front and rear to allow the flat nub to deform the rubber into the window.
     
  17. Matman

    Matman Member

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    I'll experiment, part of the fun is working on it. Must not forget to enjoy the journey to the goal. I'm gonna go play tomorrow, last time before the upgrades.
     
  18. Matman

    Matman Member

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    All my parts have come in accept the Titan, that's due tomorrow. So it's a weekend project :) You had mentioned to radius the gear box. Does this not look like it's already done? Should I radius it more you think?
     

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  19. Hangtight

    Hangtight Well-Known Member

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    That's fine, but get in there with a piece of fine abrasive paper and make sure there are no sharp edges, and that any polishing marks go along the gearbox rather than across it.