Gun only feeds with active brake on? Plz help

Discussion in 'General Airsoft Discussion' started by PleaseHelpme, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

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    Saint Charles
    Gun only feeds when I turn active break on slightly. I have tried trimming tappet plate coil, then I tried delayer chip, then I got a adjustable nozzle and tried every size. Nothing worked, I am gonna try trimming the tappet plate itself now. The sector gears i have are short stroked 3 teeth and the other is 4 teeth. Neither will feed. Do I need to short stroke my piston? How do I get my timing to be correct? Thanks

    these are my parts

    Brushless 36k warhead motor
    13:1 SHS
    M140 spring
    Lonex bearings
    Lonex gearbox
    Shs piston metal rack
    Polycarbonate piston head
    Maxx adjustable air nozzle
    Leviathan optical
    2200mah specktrum battery 30c
     
  2. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    The active breaking is probably just stopping with the nozzle open allowing it to feed better.

    Is the packing (bucking) lips protruding into the hop up feed tube?

    Is the tappet actually pulling back all the way?

    It's likely one of those issues.

    Also what mags and bbs have you tried? Some just suck and are a bit slower feeding and cause issues like this.

    While timing is important, it isn't the cause of the feeding issue here. What sector chip are you using?
     
    Jhigham likes this.

  3. OutlawAirsoft

    OutlawAirsoft Active Member

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    Hamilton
    Could you just turn active braking on? It works right?
     
  4. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the arl latch is working now that I think about it...
     
  5. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,170
    4,635
    Minneapolis
    You bought a 36K motor for $200.00?

    Brushless is not there yet....when you have a 45K motor that is conventional...and a bit faster.

    More marketing BS to fleece the Airsoft population:

    "Brushed motors are notorious for having parts that get worn out after a while, requiring frequent dismantling and parts replacement. This is because the brushes of the commutator need to maintain almost constant contact with the terminals of the power source, even as the commutator rotates rapidly. When brushes get worn out and can no longer maintain contact, a brushed DC motor basically becomes useless."

    I really don't like this company now...I could buy 3 45K motors for the same price and have it last 8 years...and have 20.00 left over.

    And they sell SHS gears for 40.00...oh yeah...late comer to the fleecing event.
     
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  6. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

    29
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    Saint Charles

    Lol I bought this motor for the semi auto response not the “36k”. It’s so much faster then any of my 28 tpa motors in semi and insanely efficient with the amp draw. I get like 2x or 3x more shots on one charge. I came here for feeding help not to get **** on for buying a brushless motor lol
     
  7. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

    29
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    Saint Charles
    Im using the SHS delayer chip. The bucking is seated perfectly and I believe your correct about the active break causing the nozzle to be sitting open. I’ve adjusted to nozzle small enough to the point where it feeds even without a delayer chip or active break but then its so small it doesn’t allow it get a good air seal. The tappet is definitely getting pulled back because when I turn active break on the nozzle stops completely retracted.

    This is what makes no sense to me, the nozzle is 100% going back and being full retracted, it’s almost like
    It goes back so fast tho that the bbs can’t feed in time. My cycle time
    Is 33ms, I don’t know If this is considered fast or not. I’m using pts epm and epm1 mags rn, they feed perfectly fine on this exact Setup at 40 rps full auto yet never want to feed in semi unless active breaked.
     
  8. OutlawAirsoft

    OutlawAirsoft Active Member

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    Hamilton
    I would listen to guges. He's forget more then you'll ever know about airsoft and particularly about the airsoft market.
     
  9. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,170
    4,635
    Minneapolis
    Getting poop for buying a brushless motor...no, that is not the intent of my comment. Charging you $200.00 for a new "fangled" motor...that is drawing my ire.

    To many unscrupulous vendors.

    Here's the thing...no one has ever quantified "trigger response time".

    Granted it's not easily measured. You can get exceptional trigger response one of "two" ways, now 3 with a brushless motor.

    HT Motor and HS Gears.
    HS Motor and STD Gears.

    And for some...HS Motor with HS gears.

    Additional factors is battery capability, MOSFET pre-cocking...and a few other tricks depending on platform.

    Back 8 years ago, I dropped the first 45K motor into a Stock G&P and ran it on a 2S LIPO. First P* guy I shot it against thought I was using HPA. Then he test fired it and said..."oh...my god, the Trigger Response...what did you do???" Uh...just dropped in a new motor...

    So, if your happy with what you have...that is all that matters.

    But, the issue with our industry...to many "lemmings"...there is more than one way to get TR and more knowledge is power...and good for the limited budget pocket books.
     
    Squad144 and Jhigham like this.
  10. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    Cycle time and feed time don't completely correlate. The cycle speed and overspin changes a lot about trigger response. Overspin can be when a round loads, which is when the aeg is cycling slowly or it even stops open like I said.
    I would check your mags and bbs.

    Also those motors are substantially better than brushed motors in performance. Im going to have to disagree with guges on that.. I do not know how they do it, I tried some rc brushless motors a year ago and it didn't work out. However I've seen over a dozen builds using those brushless motors pulling crazy fast ssg and dsg builds on high speed gears. Some of them with weaker small 2 cell lipos. All without overheating and burning like a brushed motor can. I think the main advantage is the battery size, a shorter smaller gun can run as if you are a brick lipo on the side without the bulk.

    However they are very expensive and they have more failure points than a brushed motor. I've only seen one however fail, it was a broken shaft which I'd say is due to horrible shimming by the user. Time will tell, but so far they seem to last.

    Maybe if they become more common, supply and demand will get them down to a price worth getting.
     
  11. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

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    0
    Saint Charles
    Look man I got it 140 and respect to whatever your opinions of my motor and other motors out there but I’m really just looking to get help on feeding and I don’t want this thread to get off topic.
     
  12. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

    29
    0
    Saint Charles
    Mags and bbs feed perfectly on other builds. Do I need to short stroke my piston or the other side of my sector gear. It’s like my timing is just so far off. Or it’s like my nozzle cycles so fast a bb can’t be loaded
     
  13. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    You dont have to short stroke the piston unless you feel like it. Sector is enough.

    While I don't think this is related to your problem I have a video regarding short stroking and tappet/piston timing. But it won't fix a feeding issue.

    https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCCde_wnueb/?utm_medium=copy_link


    Another factor is the tappet may be dragging on the sector if it was shimmed too high or the gearbox shell itself.
     
  14. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

    29
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    Saint Charles
    it doesn’t seem like the tappet is dragging. It seems like a timing isssue. Im short stroked 4 teeth on the pick up side , should I take teeth off the release side of the sector?
    If so how many?
     
  15. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    It still won't change chambering of a bb.
    That video is for really high speed builds where advanced timing is to be considered. That build in the video was hitting 42rps at 400fps with no fps loss at all in full auto while still being a traditional ssg build. A lot of OCD went into that aeg.

    Something else is screwing you over.

    What tappet are you using? Lonex I assume?Some of them really are deformed and just will not clear the chamber of the hop up.

    I test this by pulling the tappet back with the sector while the gearbox is assembled without the main spring, then sit the hop up unit against the front of the shell and shine a light into the barrel to see if the nozzle is cleared of the chamber, then vice versa with the tappet all the way forward I press the hop up unit to see how deep it presses into the bucking, typically 1mm-1.5mm is good. But when it's back, it must clear the chamber or bbs will struggle to get in when the cycle is moving quickly. Some sector chips aren't really good.

    I'm going to go check a lonex tappet. There's a reason I don't like them and I'd like to remember why again. I think the front of them aren't 90° and they tilt back kinking the nozzle back and up causing all sorts of hell but imma go check.

    Edit: so the front of a lonex tappet is fine. But they seem tight in a bunch of gearbox shells infront of me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  16. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

    29
    0
    Saint Charles
    I’m using the lonex tappet cause my shs and rocket tappets are too thick for the lonex gearbox. The lonex tappet I have is well made and shaped well. It’s strong and doesn’t flex much. When testing the tappet and nozzle in the HopUp with no spring attached, the nozzle clears the HopUp perfectly. The nozzle is pulled back enough to the point where it feed bbs. But it still doesn’t feed them lol. Either way I’m clearly able to feed on active break which proves that my tappet is infact pulling my nozzle back enough. I’m so confused on what to do. I’m 100% positive if I tossed my stock 18:1 gears with the same exact tappet plate + nozzle setup, that it would feed perfectly.

    At this point I don’t even know what to try
     
  17. PleaseHelpme

    PleaseHelpme New Member

    29
    0
    Saint Charles
    my lonex seems to move freely in my gearbox but I’ll double check tonight.
    The shs and rocket tappet plate are way too tight unfortunately
     
  18. OutlawAirsoft

    OutlawAirsoft Active Member

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    Hamilton
    Have you tried removing the sector delay chip? That could be causing the issue.
     
  19. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    That's because lonex gearbox shells are thick in the front and the tappet is more narrow in the front to fit. One can easily modify any tappet to fit if they really wanted to.

    Your at the point where you will need to inspect how everything meshes together and what the actual range of movement the tappet has. Looking inside the feeding tube with the nozzle pulled back like it would when it runs typically exposes a feeding problem.
     
  20. OutlawAirsoft

    OutlawAirsoft Active Member

    251
    71
    Hamilton
    Did your stock 18:1 setup have a delay chip? Maybe compare where the first (pickup) tooth on the stock sector gear is in relation to the tappet stud and what it looks like on the new sector gear. From what you're saying it sounds like an issue with the sector gear/tappet stud not the tappet plate or nozzle.