High End AR-15 for Milsim

Discussion in 'What Gun Should I Get?' started by FiberOpticRabbit, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. FiberOpticRabbit

    FiberOpticRabbit New Member

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    First off, the format:

    Budget: $450 Lower is fine if it fits the bill.

    Type: AEG

    Model: AR-15 (M4)

    Role: Field and dense woods, general assault

    I am looking for an investment here. I want to purchase a rifle I can use as my go to for milsim and crossover training for 'real steel'. External quality is paramount to me, as in the overall RELIABILITY of the gun in general. I would like something that is 90% of the way there out of the box, but if there are options for a base and suggested parts to build it up, I'm game for that too. I have experience working on AEGs and I'm not afraid to tinker if need be. As long as the overall build doesn't go over my limit.

    I am looking for an AR variant with a 10 inch rail and preferably no greater than a 10 inch external barrel, something like an MK18. I intend to attach a suppressor to extend the inner. I am open to options with a 14.5 inch external if need be and naked guns with the ability to mount a rail (suggestions for that appreciated too). This will be my main and needs to be at the standard 400 FPS or able to be easily pushed there with a drop in spring. I would use this same rifle for dedicated CQC with a spring swap.

    I play in areas that transition between open field work to dense woods to closer urban engagement. I'm looking for a real all arounder here. I play with mid caps and appreciate something with a decent rof without being a hose. I like to burst accurately.

    I am not opposed to 416 variants if they fit the bill. My only hesitation is that I will be transitioning my Aimpoint PRO from my real carbine back and forth to this replica until I can afford a second and 416s have odd rail heights that can cause this to be a hassle.

    It seems most milsim circles do not unfortunately discuss openly what brands are near and dear to their hearts (M7, AmericanMilsim, Milsim Mechanics, etc) except for gushing over the VFC/Elite Force HK416. The general idea I have gotten is that I will be looking at VFC, Elite Force (same thing right?), G&P, ICS, and KWA. I am not particularly thrilled with the proprietary nature of the last two.

    Suggestions on brands as well at specific guns is extremely welcome and I thank any and all who respond. I would also be interested in general build information if applicable. I have been away from airsoft and the technical side for a while and am a little lost in the wood rights now. Your help is appreciated.
     
  2. Ace4300

    Ace4300 New Member

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    Ridgewood
    On this forum, the most highly recommended brands are usually G&P and VFC. If you're looking for a Mk. 18, you might want to check this out:
    http://www.airsoftgi.com/mobile/product_info.php?cPath=139_24_142&products_id=6341
    VFC also has a number of other guns, you might want to take a look at their Socom Gear lineup.

    Edit: Forgot to put this in there, but VFC makes some of the most realistic replicas (as far as AEGs go), so if you shoot real steel, this might be a good option.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012

  3. Protectionperfection

    Protectionperfection New Member

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    Coming from someone who has owned almost every brand out there, for realism, VFC, G&P and ICS are the top 3.
    ICS has the split gearbox design so the take down is realistic and you can carry two different upper halves to quick change on the field to go from field limit to cqb. They come with full trades from Colt or Olympic arms and are real weight. The gearboxes are very simple to work on and if you happen to get a lock, they have a functioning forward assist. The charging handle and bolt release are not functional so that is their only drawback. Internally, from the factory, they shoot about 335 with .25 and with a M120 spring, 6.03 TBB, good shim job and AOE correction, it jumps to 365 with .25 with about 18-19 RPS. I use that in both field and cqb and have no problems out shooting some of the 400 fps guns on the field. I can accurately hit man sized targets 125-150 depending on wind 9-10/10 times. I am very happy with that as my primary. I carry a second upper for emergencies.
    VFC has the best externals on the market for an AEG. My SCAR and my friends SR-15 are VERY realistic. I was actually asked by a police officer to tear down my SCAR because he thought it was real. It has identical tear down steps and number of parts. The SR-15 doesnt tear down just like a RS but is also VERY realistic. VFC comes with functional bolt catch and charging handles that offer crisp sound and feel and are RS weighted. They can accept some RS parts like RS milspec Magpul parts(not the motor grip obviously) like the stocks and the BAD lever. The only drawback of a VFC is the piston and the wiring. The piston is plastic and cheap and wont handle an 11.1 lipo but will work just fine on a 7.4. the FPS are 350-365 out of teh box with .25 and come with a factory 6.04 TBB. They are very accurate have an ROF of around 19.
    G&P has some great externals and internals. Depending on which gun you get, some have functional charging handles and bolt catches but some do not. They dont have a split gearbox so like the VFC its not a true take down for the M4. They shoot straight and true and have a great sound to them. They are RS weighted as well, just like the other two. I would rate the VFC and G&P as dead equals.

    Those 3 choices are you best bets to getting RS feel. The split gearbox of the ICS puts it above the others while at the same time, the functionality of the charging handle and bolt release on VFC ties it for first. No matter what you choose, youll be happy in the end with one of those 3.

    Elite force and VFC are not the same company, VFC shares builds with Echo1, Umarex and Elite Force but they are different entities all together. ICS uses standard V2 parts with the motor being the only proprietary part do to the bevel gear so there is nothing to worry about there. Plenty of aftermarket choices...

    From personal experience, Elite Force and KWA are the two furthest from RS. Plastic bodies, nothing functional and KWA is all proprietary though they have some decent weight.

    I dont have experience with the 416 but Knief and a few other respected member here have them. So wait for them to chime in on that front.

    For True realism, GBBR is the way to go but thats a whole different beast.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  4. Rusty34

    Rusty34 New Member

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    Corneria
    G&P and VFC since those two companies are built like tanks (I have different opinions on G&P internals)

    I would look at King Arms since they have amazing bodies and beautiful Colt trades if G&P and VFC don't speak to your needs.
     
  5. SilentVectorX

    SilentVectorX New Member

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    You should check out the new Lonex M4's from Clandestine Airsoft.

    Having owned or fixed/upgraded teammate's AEG, I've had experience with G&P, G&G, ICS, KWA, SRC, DeepFire, and ARES. The new Lonex blows them all out of the water. It's ready to skirmish out of the box. It also has very nice externals, and a working bolt catch.
     
  6. FiberOpticRabbit

    FiberOpticRabbit New Member

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    Thank you to everyone that has responded, especially the detailed response from Protectionperfection. I truly appreciate you all taking the time. In response to Protectionperfection, thanks for clearing up the thing with Elite Force and at the time I am not interested in GBB due to cost, cost of mags, upgrading, etc. I just made a big post about my feelings on this on the americanmilsim forums. http://americanmilsim.com/forum/index.php?/topic/441-are-gbb-really-worth-it/page__st__40

    It looks like I'm leaning toward G&P & VFC. The VFC knights arm co mk18 seems like a decent choice. I would appreciate any more specific comparisons about VFC and G&P along the lines of their internals and what I would need to replace and upgrade; though once again Protectionperfection covered most of this. At this point I will be assuming they are of the same quality externally, though if I recall from an asgi video VFC are made of aluminum, which is great, and G&P is made of magnesium, which is less so. I also am not too concerned about having the ICS breakdown. I like the convinience, but to not require it for realists same or anything else. I only want to consider the ICS if it stands with the others besides the split gearbox. While nice, I hope I'm not having to service so much that its a huge issue.

    I would also be interested in hearing more about the lonex mentioned above and input from anyone owning the Elite force/VFC hk416.

    Also, thank you for being a good forum. This is my first post here; I posted the same question on airsoftforum.com and received much less helpful answers that didn't even address my questions. I think I'll be sticking around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  7. SilentVectorX

    SilentVectorX New Member

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    About the Clandestine Airsoft custom Lonex M4's...

    http://www.airsoftsociety.com/forums/f39/steel-dragons-aeg-review-lonex-m4-66479/

    [ame]http://youtu.be/JC8JT7B78F8[/ame]

    Is it weird that I already hate my own review video? It was my first run and I did the whole thing on the fly. We're going to do a follow-up review soon, so please spare the flames.

    Basically, the Lonex is everything you need and nothing you don't. It runs great right out of the box at 400FPS and over 34 rounds per second on a large 11.1v LiPo, or you can run it on a small 7.4v and still get around 24 rounds per second. It's only $220 for non-RIS variants, so you can afford a nice aftermarket RIS, sights, stocks, etc. The basic external features such as fit, finish, color, and texture are all spot on. The sights and selectors click firmly into place with strong tension, and are not mushy or easily bumped out of place.
     
  8. FiberOpticRabbit

    FiberOpticRabbit New Member

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    The Lonex certainly sounds interesting. I would love to hear if anyone else has had experiences with them and if anyone knows what kind of metal they are made of. You understand my hesitation with a relatively new system. I am confused by their price point since it seems most all metal replicas, minus rails, are still starting in the 300s.
     
  9. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    Lonex is reputable with their internal parts, I can't vouch for their externals, however Lonex internals have been tried and true (I think almost every one of my guns have or will have a Lonex part, including my $800+ guns). The price, I'm confused on as well, but then again G&P and VFC M4A1s are $200-224 after coupons at major retailers, and Lonex is on around the same level.
     
  10. SilentVectorX

    SilentVectorX New Member

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    I can't find any CNC or forged receivers for AEGs. There are some for gas rifles and SystemA PTW's, but not for AEGs.

    That said, any cast receiver is going to be inherently weak. The Lonex is just as solid as the G&P or ICS next to it, but I'm not going to throw them all off my roof to see which breaks first. Features-wise, the Lonex has captured pins, zero wobbles, a functioning bolt catch and ejection port cover, and a nice matte black finish.
     
  11. dylan484

    dylan484 New Member

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    Tifton
    Sorry to jump in the thread, andddd be off topic.

    What exactly are captured pins?
     
  12. SilentVectorX

    SilentVectorX New Member

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    Captured pins means, when you push them out to separate the receivers, there is something such as a E-clip or detent that keeps the pins from coming completely out of the lower receiver. It basically makes the pins un-loseable.
     
  13. dylan484

    dylan484 New Member

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    Tifton
    Okay, thanks I had been hearing about them on the new lonex gun and some others but I never knew what they were.
     
  14. FiberOpticRabbit

    FiberOpticRabbit New Member

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    Thank you for the continued information on the Lonex. At this point it's between the Knights ArmCo VFC doorbuster sale on ASGI, the naked 10 inch VFC to assemble myself, or the naked Lonex 10 inch. The Lonex sounds good internally; more so than the VFC, and would save me some initial upgrading money and cost less all together, however, the ultimate investment here is the body. All internals can be replaced relatively cheaply over time.

    I would really like to hear from anyone else that has gotten their hands on the Lonex, specially those with direct experience to compare it to a VFC externally. More views would just be nice, no disrespect to SilentVectorX. With its seemingly better internals and on par body, it sounds almost too good to be true.

    As it seems I will most likely be buying my own rail, I would love any info on good manufacturers who's rails have proper anti rotational designs. My modified ASGI G4 Noveske's rail is able to be torqued around by hand and it drives me crazy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  15. SilentVectorX

    SilentVectorX New Member

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    No offense taken. Something you may want to consider about the price, is that Clandestine ordered these directly from Lonex, had them shipped freight, and has always sold products at an extremely low margin. That's basically 3 large discounts over other retailers (including HK shops).
     
  16. FiberOpticRabbit

    FiberOpticRabbit New Member

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    Could I get close up images of the body and gearbox on the Lonex? I know that's asking a lot, just would be nice if you have any laying about.
     
  17. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    I found this pic of the body on the product listing, hope it helps.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. SilentVectorX

    SilentVectorX New Member

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    [​IMG]


    Compared with G&P receiver, Vltor stock, Magpul USA parts, and RS Noveske receiver.
    [​IMG]


    Compared to RS Noveske/Magpul
    [​IMG]
     
  19. FiberOpticRabbit

    FiberOpticRabbit New Member

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    Haha :). Thank you very much Vector, and thanks rich635. Vector, you are certainly very confident in and pleased with the Lonex platform. Is the logo laser engraved or painted. I personally am not entirely stoked about a glaring white logo that says airsoft. Also, do you have any idea when you would be posting the new internals bid you mentioned in your review video? I would really like to see it. Am correct in assuming that the gear ox will be the same as the drop in lonex boxes like reviewed here? http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=141756

    I'm am decently sold on the Lonex right now. It sounds like I'm getting a great deal for something I don't have to upgrade at all sans throwing on a stock of my choice and a rail I like. I would love brand suggestions for rails and lipos.

    In addition, how is the mag well retention on the production Lonex? I have read the review on arniesairsoft that mentioned some mags were able to be pulled out without releasing them. Also, how is the stability of the gearbox with no stock screw going into the spring guide?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  20. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    It looks laser engraved, I'm not sure. I saw some pictures of the mechbox in a different review, it looks very similar, though I think there are some differences. I believe the piston is different (probably wrong though), and in the AEG, the spur is self-shimming (uses a spring to shim, instead of actual shims, can be easily removed and reshimmed), and I think (probably wrong) that's it. As for rails, look for anything Madbull. They make stuff from Noveske, Daniel Defense, Troy, Spikes Tactical, Viking Tactics, PRI, and more.