Featured High Torque motor question

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by mr. potatohead, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. mr. potatohead

    mr. potatohead New Member

    10
    1
    Hey guys not new to airsoft but new to the forum. Sorry if this question has been asked before and yes I have read Legacy's guide to speed builds. Why does the shs high torque have quite a higher rof than an asg 30k boost? Both are 16 tpa high torque motors unless I'm misinformed. I currently have an asg 30k boost with 12:1 gears and am hitting around 32 rps, but I hear of guys hitting close to 40 rps with shs high torques (btw if I should be getting higher rps I'm very open to pointers).
     
  2. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    884
    459
    High torque is subject to manufacture definition as you have pointed out.

    In my opinion... shs motors run hot, their magnets are n52 ones if I'm not mistaken. Which is the strongest you can get. Their winding thickness seem to not be ideal for the tpa causing them to heat up faster than other brands. (My guess)

    Your asg motor has slighter weaker magnets, however it has much larger motor brushes on them, which in my experience allows a much much longer life of the copper comm that the brushes interact with, and more power.

    Also the math of your aeg is about 40rps if it's getting all the power and voltage it needs. A brick 11.1 lipo and a m130 with 3 teeth short stroked, two on the release side, one on the pickup side is recommended at that rounds per second. Or tappet and piston pre-engagement is a definite issue, especially with heavier bbs or ported cylinder. A mosfet is a must for that kind of rps, solid 35 amp constant would be ideal. Batteries use C rating and Mah ratings. If you have a 1,000mah battery with a 20c rating, you have 20 amps for example.

    Here's about 42rps, 12:1 ss3, asg 22k motor with a 4 cell lipo. Very very similar to yours and your goal, just slower motor with a different voltage to get the same rpm.
    https://www.instagram.com/benbri3721/p/CNlSu2pnlFq/?utm_medium=copy_link

    These days I run 10:1 ss3 gears with a 28tpa asg motor. Still very similar output. Just sounds less meshy with less overspin issues.
     
    Squad144 and mr. potatohead like this.

  3. OutlawAirsoft

    OutlawAirsoft Active Member

    318
    113
    Hamilton
    SHS motors can run REALLY hot, I had one burn out once. You know something's wrong when smoke starts coming out from under the dust cover of your AK. 20220111_214815_HDR.jpg
     
    Squad144 likes this.
  4. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    884
    459
    I've killed plenty of them.
    Honestly airsoft motors aren't made for the amount of stress we put on them in higher speed builds.

    This motor had its comm burned out again due to too much power on those tiny airsoft brushes.
    [​IMG]

    Those asg brushes literally make a brushed motor last 2 to 3 times longer before the comm is out of round at all. Even under stupid amounts of stress.

    Oh and if a grip is wayyyy too hot to hold, your likely starting to demagnetize the neo magnets... and the enamel and comm is likely ruined too.
     
    Squad144 likes this.
  5. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,780
    4,888
    Minneapolis
    SHS is batch manufacturing...no consistency between batches. In fact...the magnets vary and they are not always N52.

    Unofficial talks with the "owner" tells me he goes for the cheapest at time of manufacture...which means it can run the gamut from: N40, N42, N45, N48, N50, N52.

    No consistency...but then the buyers don't demand it...
     
    Squad144 and mr. potatohead like this.
  6. mr. potatohead

    mr. potatohead New Member

    10
    1
    My build has a gate titan, 3 cell 11.1 v lipo (20 c), and high speed piston shortstroked 5 teeth (don't even know if that was necessary bc the spring's a m120 but couldn't get my fps down to cqb limits until i had taken 5 teeth off). I shimmed the gearbox (bevel pinion method) and have ball bearings in gb shell. I greased everything (bearings, piston teeth and gears, piston head) too but not excessively. Like you pointed out, I should be getting a higher rof. Any other suggestions? Btw didn't even know 4 cell lipos existed.
     
  7. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,780
    4,888
    Minneapolis
    20C without mah means nothing really. What is the mah of your 3S pack?

    1000mah?
     
  8. mr. potatohead

    mr. potatohead New Member

    10
    1
    Ye. Now that you mention it, the battery specs might be too low for my gun to maximize its performance. I guess that's what happens when you buy a battery off of evike ;/ What battery specs would you recommend?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
  9. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,780
    4,888
    Minneapolis
    Never buy packs from Airsoft suppliers...overpriced, under performing and selling on hype to fleece your dollars.

    You need a minimum of 25A, optimally 30A for above average builds.
     
    kazuchan, Pharaoh and mr. potatohead like this.
  10. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    884
    459
    Honestly if you goal is 40rps with indoor fps, a mild 9 tooth dsg with 18:1 gears might just be easier. 5 teeth off a ssg is a lot. Youll still need a good battery
     
  11. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

    284
    76
    Ocean Springs
    Where do you prefer to take the teeth off of, two off the back one off the front?
     
  12. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    884
    459
    It depends on the gearset, some have the tappet cam in a different spot, some have the cutoff cam at a different angle.
    But when I short stroke shs or zci gears, I'll take max 2 off the release side and max 2 off the pickup side. Preferably 2 off release before doing any on pickup side. I always uses a sector chip and slight angle the bottom of the tappet fin.

    Anymore off the release side with a traditional cutoff lever can cause a semi deadzone at the end of the cycle.
    The goal with all this timing is to provide as much time between piston release and tappet pickup, tappet pme happens long before piston pme, and by taking all the teeth off the pickup side then running at 40rps your cutting the timing towards tappet pme. Which will cause fps loss in full auto.

    Seigeteks tappet cams are timed different, it's more clockwise, I ended up taking 2 off pickup and 1 off release so it didn't release while the tappet is still engaged.

    Asg gears have their tappet cam way too far counter clockwise, and are struggling with quality issues apparently. People have had the release teeth break off in mild builds. Either they have a material issue or the teeth are off spec and binding.
     
  13. mr. potatohead

    mr. potatohead New Member

    10
    1
    too late ;/
     
  14. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    884
    459
    Is the sector gear short stroked as well or just the piston? I reread everything and wanted to make sure both are short stroked. Or at least the sector.
     
  15. mr. potatohead

    mr. potatohead New Member

    10
    1

    both by 5. i might've not thought that through enough. i do have fps drop on full auto but i'll be able to tolerate it as i can't full auto at my field.
     
  16. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

    284
    76
    Ocean Springs
    The battery does not explain your FPS drop as it is an electrical component, not a mechanical or air-seal component.
     
  17. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,780
    4,888
    Minneapolis
    Actually...it may. Due to how the piston can stop in one of a few positions and if the piston is missing teeth. The piston could stop on a partial stroke and when released...it's not a full stroke of Air pressure.
     
    Squad144 likes this.
  18. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

    284
    76
    Ocean Springs
    This is true, I had not taken that into account.
     
  19. mr. potatohead

    mr. potatohead New Member

    10
    1
    i was referring to your explanation of tappet PME