Krytac: A KWA Rerun Five Years Later

Discussion in 'Electric Guns' started by airsoftmaniacman, Sep 20, 2014.

  1. airsoftmaniacman

    airsoftmaniacman Active Member

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    As many of you know, Krytac, a division of KRISS Group, recently released a line of "upgraded" AEGs.

    Before I go into a critique of the internals, I want to provide some background.

    Background

    My first "premium" AEG was a KWA. In 2009, KWA released the 2GX system, composed of the 2GX gearbox and 2GX bucking inside of their AEGs. At the time, the 2GX system was "revolutionary." The reinforced front end of the 2GX gearbox forced KWA to build proprietary receivers that could accommodate the extra bulk. This feature alone caused quite a stir amongst the airsoft community. Other notable features of the 2GX system were the "reinforced gears" that required no shimming. Supposedly, the 2GX gearbox tolerances were so good that shimming was not required. The 2GX bucking was also supposed to be a new development that would provide unparalleled range. Nevertheless, all these features paled in comparison to KWA's claim: their 2GX system could handle an 11.1v LiPo without any issue.

    I wanted to obtain a better performing AEG. Up until that point, I had spent a considerable amount of money on an ACM AEG, only to have subpar performance. I narrowed my decision down to a VFC Scar-L or the KWA KM4-RIS. Back in 2009, VFC was famous for having the best quality externals. The VFC internals back then were sub par, so my planned VFC build would require extensive upgrading using Systema parts (Systema produced the best internals at that time). In the end, I chose the 2009 model KWA because of the better stock internals.

    Soon after my purchase, I installed an EdGI 6.01mm tightbore barrel, Guarder SP120, and an AWS MOSFET. I purchased the RA-Tech 11.1v 20A LiMn battery recommended by KWA and ran my otherwise stock KWA for five years on that set up. I am proud to say that when I eventually sold that KWA earlier this year, there was little to no visible wear inside the gearbox. Even the piston's pickup tooth looked fine, with only the slightest hint of some wear. Keep in mind that this KWA AEG was running at 25 RPS @ 400 FPS for five years. It had not been shimmed, AOE corrected, or radiused. Obviously, the KWA 2GX system can easily handle that mid-stress build, but at the time this performance was atypical.

    Unfortunately, KWA fell victim to some of the unique features on their AEGs. The proprietary gearbox and proprietary receiver prevented their AEGs from gaining popularity amongst elite techs. The split receiver design replicating the breakdown of a real AR, while a nice touch, forced KWA to use the two-piece hop-up design which has faded out of favor. Most importantly, KWA fell victim to its own marketing.

    The KWA AEGs released in 2009 took the airsoft community by storm. Reviews raved about their incredible performance compared to the Classic Army and ICS models of the day. KWA AEGs flew off the shelf at an incredible rate, forcing KWA to increase production. Unfortunately, the rush to meet the demand led to an unfortunate series of events.

    KWA had trumpeted its AEGs as being capable of withstanding high stress builds without any additional modifications or upgrades. Or at least, that was the impression given to the public. The public took this impression and ran with it. New and intermediate players would purchase KWAs and immediately switch out the stock spring for M140 and M150 springs. They would then plug in an 11.1v LiPo and use their KWAs like support weapons, expecting to receive incredible range and ROF on the stock gearbox. They were mistaken. While excellent for the time period, the 2GX system was not capable of withstanding the incredible abuse that newer players were subjecting on it. Reports of the reinforced 2GX gearbox cracking and the gears stripping became more and more popular. In the rush to supply the demand, KWA AEGs were being produced at a quality beneath the level of the 2009 models. The tolerances of the gearboxes increased (most likely due to warping of the molds used to cast the gearboxes) which then required them to be shimmed. Unfortunately, the 2009 KWA models required no shimming, and that impression held on, resulting in players building high stress KWA builds without shimming their KWA gearboxes. KWA slowly began to fall out of favor as players became disenchanted with the brand. High failure rates, due to over stressing the 2GX system, and lowered compatibility with aftermarket TM-compatible upgrades made KWAs a less popular choice. VFC and G&P improved the quality of the internals, eventually matching and even surpassing KWA's performance for a similar price. Since VFC and G&P had better externals and now better internals, it no longer made sense to purchase a KWA for the same amount of money.

    Discussion

    Does this story sound familiar to you? Maybe it is because Krytac has begun a similar journey. Allizard, the very name that made KWA famous, is now employed by KRISS/Krytac. It seems likely that some of the concepts and practices employed at KWA will be reenacted at Krytac.

    The very features that made the KWA 2GX stand out became its downfall. The proprietary features that promised better durability ended up not being enough. If there is a lesson to take away from KWA's downfall, it is that proprietary systems are a dangerous long-term business strategy.

    Now on to the actual topic matter: the Krytac gearbox.

    On paper and in person, the Krytac gearbox will definitely turn heads. The advanced tech will not be as impressed but will still appreciate some of the fine details that Krytac incorporated into its gearbox.

    Pros

    In no order in particular, Krytac added some excellent features.

    The wire guide at the base of the gearbox, where the pinion and bevel gear mesh, is a stroke of genius. While not necessary since stiffer wire will sufficiently stay out of the way, it makes a tech’s job much easier when routing wire through that point without constantly pressing the wire into the corners.

    The pre-radiused gearbox is a wonderful addition. The only other gearboxes currently pre-radiused are expensive CNC gearboxes from Retro Arms and Cradle. However, those do not even need radiusing to begin with. It should be pointed out that all gearboxes, except for CNC’d gearboxes should be radiused. As a result, this concept is not ground breaking. It is nice to see that manufacturers are finally incorporating this necessary modification into their stock gearboxes. I would expect manufacturers from now on to pre-radius their stock gearbox, especially for a top tier brand ($300+). This is both a Pro and Neutral feature since Krytac is including a modification that should already be done.

    AOE correction is also a good touch. As of now, only Lonex AOE corrects their gearboxes. Unfortunately, the AOE correction is not perfect. As a result, you will still need to AOE correct if you plan on running a high stress build. This is a Pro and Con. “Optimized” AOE is not good enough for stressful builds, but it may be enough for lower performance builds.

    The wheel-style hop-up unit with the click wheel feature is also a nice feature. On one hand, the click wheel feature prevents extremely precise trajectory tuning, but the ability to retain that setting without it changing over time counters it.

    The integrated 3034 MOSFET is an excellent addition. All AEGs should utilize a MOSFET to prolong the lifetime of the trigger contacts. Utilizing the “dead space” found in the V2 gearbox was also astute. However, this falls in the same category as the pre-radiused gearbox. All gearboxes should include a MOSFET, so Krytac is simply including a modification that should come stock on all AEGs. If Krytac had partnered with BlackTalon Concepts or Extreme Fire and installed one of their MOSFETs, I would be truly impressed. A Pro and Neutral feature.
     
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  2. airsoftmaniacman

    airsoftmaniacman Active Member

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    Neutral

    Krytac uses aluminum receivers with a dull matte black finish. Reminds me of the KWA receivers. This is nice, but every one knows that VFC and G&P make the best externals.

    The ambidextrous selector switch is a nice touch. Unfortunately, it also makes opening the gearbox that much more annoying. If you are left-handed, this may be a huge benefit. For right-handed users, ambidextrous switches do not mean much. VFC has used this feature before, making this feature nothing new.

    A locking bolt is a good feature. However, the same feature exists in VFC and King Arms AEGs. It is nice to see that the locking bolt is integrated into the gearbox, unlike the VFC, but this same feature also turns the Krytac gearbox into a proprietary gearbox if you want to keep the locking bolt feature, just like VFC.

    A reinforced gearbox is nice, but VFC, G&P, and Lonex already make them. Even the JG gearboxes are reinforced enough to be used in DSG builds. Apparently, the Krytac gearbox is a little “meatier” than the Lonex, which is already reinforced, but this might not necessarily be a good thing. KWA had an overly-reinforced gearbox that required use of a proprietary receiver. Only time will tell if the Krytac gearbox is a good high stress build contender.

    The small window on the left side of the gearbox for lubrication and AOE visualization is a random thing to include. 99% of the time, you need to correct the AOE with the gearbox completely open. Why would anybody need to see if their AOE is correct through a window when they will open the gearbox anyway to fix it? And when was the last time you squirted lube into the side of your gearbox? Lubrication must be applied to bearings/bushings and axles on the gears. The window does not help with this, which means lubricating through this window would only result in excessive lube in all the wrong places. If anything, Krytac should have placed a window by the bevel/pinion to help with motor height adjustment.

    Calling your gears reinforced and having a higher Rockwell hardness than the industry norm is like saying you received a grade “A” in college physics. If you go to a community college, it is nothing to be impressed at. If you go to an Ivy League school, then you completed a feat that not many students can accomplish. If the industry norm is G&G Combat Machine gears or cheap ACM gears, the words “reinforced” mean little to nothing. How are these gears compared to VFC or G&P? How are they compared to Siegetek?

    The Krytac piston is made of polymer with four metal teeth, with the second to last tooth removed for AOE correction. This is an excellent step forward. However, how does this separate Krytac from VFC and G&P? The VFC only has one metal tooth, and the G&P has four metal teeth, but in the end, the only tooth that needs to be metal is the last release tooth. The removal of the second to last tooth is an improvement over the VFC. However, the G&P stock pistons also do not have a second to last tooth, and G&P pistons have a well established reputation for durability. Additionally, polymer means nothing to knowledgeable techs. Even ACM pistons are “polymer.” Are the pistons made of glass-filled nylon or POM?

    The modular spring guide is a useful feature if the Krytac gearbox is kept stock or used in a DSG build. Even at 25 RPS (maximum ROF of a Krytac gearbox on an 11.1v LiPo), the gearbox is unlikely to run into PME on the stock or slightly weaker springs. In DSG builds, where springs quickly lose tension, replacing those springs can be helpful. However, the gearbox must be completely removed from the receiver before the quick change spring guide can be accessed. At that point, the tech is half way to opening the gearbox. This quick change feature is not like the Systema PTW quick change cylinder, which is a simple and easy process. A substantial amount of disassembly must still occur before the Krytac spring guide can be removed.

    Krytac included a high torque motor. This is a good addition, but next to nothing is known about its quality. Unless Krytac produces specifics, like the TPA of the motor, we can only speculate that it is similar in quality to the VFC and G&P stock motors. Also, 30,000 revolutions per minute unloaded is a useless statistic. The motor will always be under load in an AEG. What are the specifications while under load?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
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  3. airsoftmaniacman

    airsoftmaniacman Active Member

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    Cons

    The Krytac does not have an O-ring air nozzle. Admittedly, VFC does not have an O-ring air nozzle, but the G&P does. Any gun that expect to compete with the current top tier brands should include small, yet important, features like an O-ring air nozzle.

    As mentioned in the Pro section, AOE “optimization” is not the same as AOE correction. For a stock set up not exceeding 25 RPS, “optimization” may be enough to avoid catastrophic failure. For anything above that, AOE should be perfect.

    Ball bearings are a nice touch, but those are not necessarily the best choice for a stock set up. KWA went with 9mm ball bearings, and the horror stories of what happens when those ball bearings fail can be found on the internet. Steel bushings, like those found in VFC would have been preferable. Ball bearings are only necessary in very high speed set ups (35+ RPS) and the stock Krytac parts are likely not capable of withstanding that stress. Krytac should have chosen bushings, which are less likely to fail catastrophically.

    Claiming that the Krytac AEG can take an 11.1v LiPo is not new. KWA made that claim and partially lived up to it in 2009. Current VFC and G&Ps can easily handle 11.1v LiPos.

    Although aluminum, black matte receivers and stamped trademarks are nice, real steel trademarks are what make an AEG’s externals stand out. VFC and G&P have trademarked receivers from multiple real steel companies. Admittedly, it is done “illegally” overseas where the U.S. Patent Office cannot touch them, but real steel trademarks are one of those small features that create a truly great product.

    The supposedly “TM compatible” gear set in the Krytac gearbox is not completely “TM compatible.” If you need to replace the gears and bushings/bearings, you must dremel out those spaces to accommodate an aftermarket gear or bushing/bearing.

    The stock tappet plate is apparently too thick when using different gears. If the tappet plate requires significant sanding before it can be used with other TM compatible parts, it is no longer a "drop in" compatible part.

    It appears that the gearbox shell as a whole is too thick in some areas and must be dremeled or sanded down for clearance with aftermarket parts.

    The Krytac gearbox is not completely TM compatible in that it does not allow drop in parts. Yes, it utilizes TM compatible parts, but if significant modification to the gearbox and parts is needed for proper fitment, then the drop in “TM compatible” claim wavers. However, I understand that many aftermarket "TM compatible" parts require modification for fitment. Nevertheless, this inability to drop in TM compatible parts brings Krytac down to the level of KWA.

    Conclusion

    At the end of the day, this is the question that must be answered: “Is the Krytac significantly better than VFC or G&P?” Since Krytac costs about the same as a VFC or G&P, I would argue that it is not significantly better to justify purchasing it over a VFC or G&P. This is the same argument made against KWAs. While Krytac has put a fair amount of thought and resources behind their AEG, they have not met or exceeded the standards already set by VFC and G&P for the $300-400 price range.

    If you intend on upgrading your AEG, VFC and G&P are a better choice. Better quality externals and excellent internals make these two brands the go-to choice for techs who like a good looking gun with exceptional internals.

    If you intend on keeping your Krytac gearbox completely stock for the duration of its life, then perhaps Krytac would be worth it. However, this is the same argument made against KWAs. KWAs are excellent performers, but only when kept stock. Upgrading them can be more trouble than it is worth. While Krytac has put a fair amount of thought and resources behind their AEG, they have not met or exceeded the standards already set by VFC and G&P for the $300-400 price range. They resolved some of the issues created by the KWA system, but they did not substantially improve the system to warrant “top tier” status along side VFC and G&P. At least not for the price.

    I predict that Krytac will follow in the steps of KWA. With Allizard working with them and a similar marketing strategy to KWA, this does not seem an unreasonable possibility. I sincerely hope that I am wrong, and that Krytac truly exceeds everybody’s expectations over the long term.

    If Krytac had partnered with BTC and Siegetek for their AEGs, they would truly stand out as the front runner.

    Keep in mind that this is my opinion on the subject matter based on the information I have gathered over the past few weeks. After being sucked in to the KWA hype and living as a KWA fan boy for a few years, I have no intention of repeating that experience. I do not think others should fall for the same trick. All of the “non-TM compatible” claims I made are based off the work of a tech who recently opened and upgraded the Krytac gearbox.

    Additionally, I am not down playing KWA as a bad brand. As a former owner of the famous 2009 KWA AEGs, I had no complaints against the performance. However, KWA ceased to offer enough features to make it competitive compared to modern VFC/G&Ps.

    Let the fanboyism and constructive critiquing begin.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
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  4. andrewscity116

    andrewscity116 Member

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    Very good work! I need to pass this on to a friend.
     
  5. Wingman703

    Wingman703 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Holy cow, that was a really good write up. Good job considering all the points of Krytac into one thread. I, like many others, will be keeping a close eye on Krytac's, and hope to get my hands on their gearbox to see for myself what is really going on inside those guts.
    +1'ing all those posts because of awesome.
     
  6. Darth

    Darth New Member

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    I may have missed it. But do you actually have a KRYTAC. Or is all this just based on what you have seen/heard? And just because Allen works for KRISS now has nothing to do with how well a aeg performs.
     
  7. airsoftmaniacman

    airsoftmaniacman Active Member

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    No. However, I directly know somebody who just bought and upgraded a Krytac. Upgrading the gearbox with standard aftermarket gears and bushings required extensive modification to the gearbox for fitment. Something only a very experienced tech should attempt. Certainly not something for a beginner tech. G&P/VFC do not require any such extensive modifications for standard TM compatible parts.

    Do you have a Krytac? Owning one or the lack thereof does not discount the opinions I made. Although direct contact/primary sources are preferred, comparisons to current guns do not require me to have hands on experience with the Krytac when a perfectly competent tech provided the information. Your question is like asking a history professor if he owns the primary sources he wrote his dissertation on. You do not need to own an item in order to gain knowledge from it.

    Did I ever mention that Krytacs would perform poorly because Allizard/Allen works for the company? No. I simply stated that because he works for them, it is likely that some of the mistakes made under KWA are likely to be repeated. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him as an airsoft innovator, but that does not change the possibility that the mistakes made by KWA may occur under Krytac.


    Sent from my iPhone using Airsoft Society
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  8. Allizard

    Allizard Member

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    Let me first said I do appreciate you are taking the time to give your impression of the product. On the other hand, what you said above is something that we are trying very hard to avoid. There is a whole side of story why WE (yes I used a plural because I'm not the only one) left KWA. I'm not going to bore you with details so if you are really interested just ask me privately in another time. But since you are dropping my name in your post I will state this. Different company have different philosophy on how they operate. Just because we moved from one group to another, doesn't automatically mean we are going to repeat the same thing again. This is purely speculation.

    Also, I'm on the same forum as you are. You have an opportunity to PM me or better yet, call the the office directly to get some factual information before giving your opinion. I often call myself the most reachable man in the airsoft industry for a good reason. When is the last time a representative from G&P, VFC or even TM comes on board and actually talk to you guys. We believe in getting involve with the community at the grass root level.

    As for giving an opinion on a product without actually owning it does lessen your creditably. That is unless you are an renown expert that gives opinion as a living. Case in point, you are shopping for a car. Which person will you listening to. An actual owner of the same car your are buying or some random mechanic with no proof of certification? And speaking of certification, this is one thing in the airsoft industry is sorely lack of. Who and how do you qualify such person as a certified tech. Does this person have a broad perspective on various products? What formal training does he have, or even who is providing the training or self taught? Airsoft as a whole started as a hobby for collectors some 40+ years ago and gradually moving into a competitive sports. Unlike automotive industry. We are still at a growing stage. I hope you see my points. But in any case, my suggestion is to keep an open mind. There are couple things in your posts I would like to address but I'll keep them as separate post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
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  9. Allizard

    Allizard Member

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    Actually the original KWA receiver where shiny coated with oil. Sometime in late 2009 to 2010 changes with the SR series. Either way, color and finish are subjective.

    There is only ONE extra screw on the right side fire selector to remove. The rest is the same process taking the gearbox out of the receiver.

    If you worry about adding complication into taking out of the gearbox, why is VFC and King Arms uses an external lever underneath the gearbox? Which REQUIRE you have to disassemble the lever by punching out the roll pin both catch first. IT ACTUALLY ADD a few extra steps to remove the gearbox out of the receiver. Krytac bolt catch feature is build inside the shell and it's also remove-able. It doesn't require any extra time to take the gearbox out of the receiver. It doesn't change the dimension of the gearbox shell. It's literally opening two holes on each side to achieve this feature. Now does it make it a Proprietary gearbox shell?!

    I wonder how many others are willing to put their gearbox in -34 Fahrenheit and dry fire continuously? We did and it was published on our FB page. So yes the dimension a little beefier. But it's not so much that you can't drop the gearbox in another after market receiver like a Hurricane.

    You know we've never said the hole is there for your lubrication need. This is purely a comment by a certain dealer and everyone seems to take it as face value. The hole was there originally to observe gearing placement when we were researching on piston release feature. We just never bother to close it. :rolleyes:

    You got a point there. But bare in mind a company have no obligation to reveal all the information. Material use and specification are treated as intellectual properties or trade secret. That said and for the record. Krytac Sector gear and Spur gear are made out of Steel Alloy with added ingredient for stronger tensile strength. Rockwell rating is 42+. Certain part of the gear is at 50. For those who aren't familiar with these numbers. Most cast gear in the market are 20's, with heat treatment can raised to 35 without being too brittle. I'm going have to leave out the detail on bevel gears reason stated above.

    The piston is polymer, nothing special. Here I said it. Does it have to some space age material? No it certainly does not. And even if it is how much will you paid for it? For the mater of fact is this, the entire gearbox require a calculated WEAK SPOT in case of a failure. Piston is a consumable product and if something is going to break. YOU WANT THE MOST INEXPENSIVE PART TO BREAK. Or would you have rather have your expensive gears to break? Which one is cheaper to replace?! So as long as the calculation is correct. There is nothing wrong to use a polymer piston.

    Once again, we have never say Quick change. It started from a certain retailer and people just take it as face value. I have been saying it's an EASY spring change because it's NOT Quick as early as Shot Show when I was interviewed by several bloggers and dealers.


    There are only three (yes 3) companies that manufacturer motors for AEG use. Every brand you see on the market are usually OEM by one of these 3 companies. So giving a specification on the motor as public information we are literally giving away part of the company trade secret. What I will say is this, Airsoft Barracks have done some tests on our motors. The result is you can still pull 22rps with a M150 spring. They have more details on the amp output so you can contact them if you really want to chase the numbers down.

    I will reply the other post when I got more time.
     
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  10. Wingman703

    Wingman703 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hell, all I wana know about the motor is TPA, magnet strength, and pinon hardness... I don't care what amps it pulls, whats its TPA, and what kind of performance are we going to see out of it response and ROF wise? Surely releasing that info isn't 'giving away company trade secrets'.
     
  11. MaxChairSoft

    MaxChairSoft New Member

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    Ive tried to make that point here before. The "expert" techs of this forum scoffed at me. Dont waste your time.
     
  12. Allizard

    Allizard Member

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    Not many company publish their TPA rating. But just to answer the question is 21. We are using Neodymium magnet and AWG is around 21 (I have to converted from metric data.)

    Pinion hardness. Rockwell rating is 45+

    Is that good enough info for you?!
     
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  13. Wingman703

    Wingman703 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Perfect. Exact info I had been looking for.
     
  14. Sharp

    Sharp Member

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    First off, I'd like to thank you for this writeup. Definitely informative! While I myself don't plan on purchasing a Krytac I know many who are and I'll be sure to link them to this thread for some information. My only concern is this:

    A. Yes it does.

    B. You present your arguments as facts (or at least simple statements) backed up with data, not opinions. While you stated you didn't intend to come off with either (and I don't need you too, disclaimers should be a given). Generally I consider a product analysis to be more factual based than opinion (unless of course it's stated to focus on the latter). Of course I expect a bit of author bias but I would hope it'd be mostly factual based. I don't mean to bash, honestly. I just think stating that you're basing your information off a friend's replica with work done by someone else, it just helps transparency in the overview.

    Ultimately it looks like Krytac is worth keeping an eye on. I'm excited to see where they go in the future with some of the biggest names in the airsoft industry backing them. Allen's activity in the airsoft community is a defintely plus, and hopefully we'll start to see more cool products and features coming down the pipe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
  15. imnotcrazy777

    imnotcrazy777 Active Member Supporting Member

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    To be fair, the writeup was presented as an opinion article (that's what I got out of it, at least), and he's projecting his own experiences and knowledge along with a bit of second hand experience into a prediction. It might be wrong, but multiple perspectives are usually helpful.
     
  16. MikeTheSith200

    MikeTheSith200 Member

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    Thank you Allizard for treating the OP.
     
  17. airsoftmaniacman

    airsoftmaniacman Active Member

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    Thank you to every one who replied thus far. I wanted to start a discussion on why Krytac deserves to be considered a top tier brand, and I think I did a good job initiating it.

    I would like to reply to some of the posts published on this topic.

    First off, I want to highlight my conclusion.

    The point of this thread, as stated by my conclusion, was to publish my opinion and discern whether or not Krytac deserves to be placed at the same level as VFC and G&P.

    Allizard and I had a chance to chat yesterday over the phone.

    My concern that Krytac might follow in KWA's steps were unfounded. It turns out that Allizard left KWA because KWA became more profit-focused than innovation-focused. Krytac's philosophy puts more emphasis on listening to its advisors rather than turning a profit. As a result, Krytac will hopefully not go the same way as KWA.

    Allizard and Krytac CS are very reachable. Certainly more open than any other airsoft company that I know of. The fact that I was able to speak directly with Allizard about the choices made when designing the Krytac gearbox speaks volumes about their commitment to innovation, progress, and feedback. Transparency and honesty are important in a company, and Krytac has so far delivered on these aspects.

    As for my qualifications, I will discuss that later on in this post.

    Just as a little perspective, older generation Siegetek gears were made of chromium molybdenum steel which have a Rockwell B hardness of about 92. The newest nickel chromium molybdenum gears have a Rockwell C hardness of around 59, which surpasses the Rockwell B scale that tops out at 120. However, I do not expect a stock gun to come with something quite so expensive or "overkill."


    I never stated that a piston should be unbreakable. I prefer using Lonex pistons for the exact reason you explained. If something goes wrong inside my gearbox, I would rather have my piston strip than potentially damage the Siegetek gears or BTC MOSFET installed inside. However, I was a Chemistry Major at one point, so using the word "polymer" does not mean a thing to me. "Polymer" is a term used to describe any synthetic plastic. G&P uses polyacetal (POM) while VFC uses polycarbonate. Lonex uses a glass-fiber nylon composite for their pistons. This information is common knowledge. What I wanted to know was the material of the Krytac piston, not why they chose to use a plastic piston.

    To be continued.
     
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  18. airsoftmaniacman

    airsoftmaniacman Active Member

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    Good point. I initially described the spring guide as "modular," which is exactly the word used by Krytac. I should not have switched to the phrase "quick detach." However, I should point out that nobody has created a true "QD" spring guide. Every company that advertised a "QD" spring guide had a mechanism exactly the same as the modular spring guide found on the Krytac.

    Thank you. VFC and G&P do not use neodymium magnet motors in their AEGs. This means that Krytac is the first and only company at the $300+ range to install neodymium magnet motors in their stock AEGs. This reason is certainly a "Pro" that deserves to be mentioned. While TPA is not a direct correlation to a motor's torque/speed, a TPA of 21 suggests that the stock Krytac motor is a "high torque" motor. This is also a "Pro" since high torque motors are preferred for trigger response and efficiency.

    Experience certainly is important when validating an opinion.

    The tech I referred to owns a professional airsofting business with a storefront and teching component. It is a very successful local enterprise that carries Krytac products. Despite finding the Krytac gearbox not compatible with aftermarket TM compatible gearbox parts without major dremeling and sanding, he still whole-heartedly recommends the brand. I will leave him nameless as I do not wish to affect his relationship with Krytac.

    As for the friend I mentioned, he has airsofted and teched since 1991. If anything, he is more qualified than anybody else on this forum to be called an expert in the field of airsoft. He owns a Krytac LMG, which he prefers over a Lonex/Siegetek/BTC M4 build that he typically uses. Nevertheless, he found that some parts of the Krytac gearbox were not completely compatible with aftermarket TM-compatible components.

    Am I an expert? No. That was never my claim. However, my sources are more than qualified to make the observations they made, and I used their observations to support my opinions.

    Again, my hope is to prompt a discussion why Krytac deserves to be considered compared to the other well known brands currently available.

    In my opinion, Krytac makes an incredible AEG in its stock configuration. If I had to bring only one AEG in its stock configuration to an OLCMSS event, I would probably choose the Krytac (or my old 2009 KWA). However, if given the choice to add several aftermarket internal upgrade parts, I would probably chose VFC or G&P.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  19. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    6,228
    1,842
    High end G&G AEGs have neodymium magnet motors actually, so Krytac is not the only one. They're also not the only brand with radiused gb shells. My G&G M4 has a radiused stock gb shell. I just wanted to clarify this.
     
  20. Rushin

    Rushin Well-Known Member

    3,920
    32
    Kalamazoo

    I believe all "top-tech" G&Gs have radiused shells, but G&G's airseal parts are godawful.