M190 AEG Possible?

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by 003snow, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. 003snow

    003snow New Member

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    Richmond HIll
    WHATS UP GUYS! I'm fairly new to the world of professional air soft, only own one gun and a couple parts but i'm loving it! Been a fan of bb guns ever since i was a kid. And i can sit there shooting targets for hours. One thing i really wanted to do is get the absolute highest UMFF out of my gun. I bought some .43's and got my self a M190 spring. Thing is, the "SUPER HIGH TORQUE!" motor i got seems like it wouldn't even be able to handle a M170 let alone a 190. I could always just get a Gas powered but it wont be as simple as a 4 hour battery nor will the reloading be fun.

    I was hoping you could give me some advice on my build. I have a Classic Army KC89 Enhanced Speed Load Tactical Rifle AEG running a Matrix Complete Full Metal 8mm Lipo Ready Version 3 Gearbox for AK Series Airsoft AEG Rifles A LiPo 20c 7.4 v (also tried a 9.6v NiMh) AMP High Torque Motor (Short Type) didn't work, neither did a ARES Super High Torque AEG Motor (Short Type) PS: The gearbox works fine with a M100. The motor just doesn't want to move with the M190. It tries but not enough torque. Even though the seller stated on the description and on an email directed to me that there is no reason that it cant handle the M190.

    Questions:

    I don't have full metal piston gear, only last tooth. will that just shred my plastic?

    If so are there motors for under 100$ that i could use for a build like this?

    Is the motor even the problem? Is it more of a gear situation?

    And if it will be easier and better for me to just get a stock air soft that can shoot 700 Fps?

    Is there a simpler way to increase FPS?

    Is it worth the struggle and money to put in to it in order to obtain the highest fps? in other words. Am i going to blow another 300 just to get a tiny bit more? Try to look at this one from a non hardcore arena player.

    Any advice would be much appreciated and all feedback will be read.

    The more the merrier :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  2. Airborne101

    Airborne101 Well-Known Member

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    Stock guns do not come shooting 700fps.

    Is there a simpler way to raise the fps? Yeah, buy a HPA unit (PolarStar, SMP, etc)

    You are going to blow $130 on gears alone if you want any sort of reliability with that spring. Those would be Siegetek Concept gears.

    You will also want to buy a JG Blue or ZCI torque motor which has 22TPA. Better yet, find a Chaoli armature and put it in a neodymium magnet can get more torque to pull the spring (28 or 32TPA depending on your luck)

    You would also be looking at needing a new cylinder head, piston head, piston, and spring guide. You are looking at another $40 there.

    Then there are the "tune up" modifications that you would need to do. Correct Angle of Engagment on the piston, radius the front window corners of the cylinder window, shim the gears.

    Furthermore, your battery listed doesn't give us much useful info since you left on the MAH of the battery. You will likely need a much better 7.4v lipo or 11.1v.

    As to whether this is worth it, that is up to you to decide. How badly do you really need 700fps. Keep in mind, you wont be allowed onto any regulated field.
     

  3. Scallene

    Scallene Member

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    Olympia
    m190 should put you around 620 fps (190 meters is about 620 feet). A jg blue or the frankentorque motor that airborne recommended should do the trick for pulling but you would also want: mosfet, 11.1 lipo with a c rating of atleast 30, siegetek gears would be your best bet. You would also need to radius your gearbox shell and if its an m4 add a shock transfer system.
     
  4. BoogerMc

    BoogerMc Airsoft Jedi Master Supporting Member

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    If you want to see an example of an M190 spring in operation, follow the Monster 60 link in my signature below. By the way, it ain't pretty.
     
  5. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    C rating alone is a pointless unit, a rating of 30C can mean 3 or 3000 amps depending on battery capacity. I recommend at minimum a 3 cell li-po capable of 40 amps continuously.

    Getting the motor to pull the spring isn't really the biggest challenge here, you just need high enough TPA, a battery that can supply enough power and gears that can transfer the torque reliably.

    The main challenge here is to keep the piston and gearbox shell from crumbling, and M190 will literally beat the snot out of the gearbox shell and can rip the teeth rack right off the piston. A radiused high quality V3 shell will probably hold up with sorbo on the cylinder head, but you may need an aluminum shell to make sure it'll hold up over time. A regular zink alloy V2 shell will most likely not handle the stress, even with an STS you'll be testing your luck.

    Then there's the piston, even the infamous SHS 15T won't cut it here, you may need an aluminum piston with a steel teeth rack. I do not have very deep insight in aluminum pistons, so others may want to chime in on this aspect.

    Then comes the biggest challenge, installing the spring, good luck getting that M190 spring into the gearbox. You'll need to build some kind of rig to hold the gearbox down and help you close the gearbox shell, you may want to get a friend to help you with this.
     
  6. BoogerMc

    BoogerMc Airsoft Jedi Master Supporting Member

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    I can attest to the difficulty of compressing the spring, even in my SAW, with it's removable spring design it was like trying to squeeze down on a shock absorber for your car. Even using my bread tie trick may be difficult with such a spring.

    I can also agree with the plastic piston destruction issues, I eventually had to give up and go to an M150 spring because I kept shredding pistons. I couldn't find an aluminum piston in stock at the time I built my SAW.
     
  7. Rushin

    Rushin Well-Known Member

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    The real question here is, why do you need 620 FPS?
     
  8. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    This guy has a point. Nobody really needs more than 350.
     
  9. 003snow

    003snow New Member

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    Richmond HIll
    Well that's where it all began right. Me being new to Air soft i don't know whats feasible but impracticable. Or what is just plane stupid and expensive. Fact is i want the range and accuracy of a sniper but the "Sit back, have you eyes on the prize and let the motor do all the work." AEG no bolt action mumbo jumbo.
    If i can acquire range and accuracy beyond say 100m another way. Then i will go that rout. Because as of now with the setup I have. I can barely shoot 50m consistently and accurately with .3's (haven't tired with .43).
     
  10. Rushin

    Rushin Well-Known Member

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    You will never get the accuracy of a sniper rifle out of an AEG, and high FPS isn't *technically* needed for a high accuracy build anyhow. You can do 300 ft. Range, but you're going to have to do more than just a higher FPS.
     
  11. 003snow

    003snow New Member

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    Richmond HIll
    TBH not very hard for me, Did it at least 5-6 times already. Simple enough with a quick change system.
     
  12. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    Either way, I really don't think you need a high fps, even to snipe. By now you know your FPS has nothing to do with your range as long as you have an adjustable hop up. I've sniped with 270 fps before.
     
  13. 003snow

    003snow New Member

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    Richmond HIll
    So if someone dosn't mind please letting me know exactly what i should do to insure the up most accuracy out of a simple AEG. And im talking spread wise with a x9 scope.
     
  14. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    You'll need a well-tuned hop up unit and a good quality bucking. Japanese companies such as Systema, Tokyo Marui, and Prometheus are all known for some of the best buckings. I've also heard great things about R-hops, which are more to install than just a bucking. I would avoid REAPS, as stock buckings are better than those at times.

    Buckings also come in different degrees of hardness to accommodate the various muzzle velocities. Softer buckings are geared towards lower fps (sub 400), whereas higher velocities warrant a harder bucking to put more backpin on the BB.

    If you would like to purchase a bucking, you can special order a Japanese one through me, just contact me via my store email at [email protected]
     
  15. 003snow

    003snow New Member

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    Richmond HIll
    Last Question and then im going to stop bothering you guys with my noob antics.

    How drastic of a change would i get by installing a aftermarket bucking. From what I understand I have a pretty high end gun and decent inner workings. (Custom Krebs Ak Classic Army AEG) Would I very much see the difference?
     
  16. Rushin

    Rushin Well-Known Member

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    You'd definitely see an increase, but you'll get a crazy increase if you do airseal and hop DIY mods too.
     
  17. Airborne101

    Airborne101 Well-Known Member

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    Softer buckings are always able to apply more spin to a bb. Because they are softer, they deform around the bb more, increasing contact, and therefore increasing hop. The reason harder buckings are associated with higher FPS is because they are more resistant to wear at tear, which higher FPS will put on the bucking.

    With the R-hop (or any barrel window patch), the hard bucking becomes more desirable. Reason being, a harder bucking is more difficult to deform. Because of this, (ignoring material choice of the bucking), a harder bucking will withstand the pressure of the air, and deform less than the soft bucking, offering a better seal. Material choice offers different sealing properties, so you have to juggle between material choice and durometer (what you called degree's) of the bucking.

    003snow, having owned and worked on several Classic Army guns, I have found the stock bucking to be lacking. Replacing the bucking with something better like a G&G green, Prometheus soft, etc should certainly help increase your range and accuracy. However doing the flat hop mod, or R-hop installation should offer a significant increase over just a standard bucking, so long as you use quality heavy weight ammo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  18. Scallene

    Scallene Member

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    Olympia
  19. AirsoftRyan778

    AirsoftRyan778 Active Member

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    Are you referring to cheeseman? And bb ******* CNCs .66g bbs which are almost perfectly spherical with very little devistion between bbs
     
  20. Topper

    Topper Resident Donkey Supporting Member

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    New Orleans
    Long range guns. When you hit 300' with a gun shooting 350 FPS with .20's, call me.

    How did you reach the conclusion that FPS has nothing to do with range?

    No, simply putting in a huge compression spring won't give you 300'. However, it is simple physics that the more energy something has behind it, the farther it can go.

    So, if you had two rifles, both have perfect ER-hops and EM-nubs, and lapped 455 mm PDI 6.08 barrels, with a Lonex chamber and a Lonex 70 degree bucking. Everything is perfectly tuned. They are using .4 gram BB's. The gearboxes are exactly identical except for the compression spring. The rifles are perfectly stabilized and shooting perfect bb's in a stabilized enviroment.
    Rifle #1 has an M150.
    Rifle #2 has an M120.
    Which will shoot further?
    By your logic they will end up with the bb's in the exact same place. By actual logic, Rifle #1 will shoot farther. Why? Because more FPS with the same weight bb means more joules. Joules are a measurement of energy. The more energy the bb has, the farther it travels.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015