M4 cqb (g&p, vfc, kwa)

Discussion in 'Electric Guns' started by bonnax, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. bonnax

    bonnax New Member

    447
    0
    London
    To start I want to apologize; I don't want to start a big G&P vs. KWA vs. VFC war.

    I'm looking to replace my JG with a good CQB M4. I will keep it stock until something breaks and I need to replace it, apart from a barrel. I've narrowed it down four guns (but am open to other suggestions):

    1. KWA SR7 DEVGRU
    2. G&P Sentry
    3. G&P TROY M7A1
    4. VFC Full Metal MK18 Mod-0

    I've heard quite often that KWA externals are terrible but I don't really see what's so bad about them, I guess they're a bit small and bland - what's actually so bad? I've also read that KWA internals aren't great (I know about the proprietary parts problem) in comparison with G&P or VFC, although some people rave about how good they are stock.

    How would you rate the internals, externals and stock performance of these four guns?

    I have done quite a lot of research, but I just wanted some other opinions and hopefully some first hand experiences.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Bonnax
     
  2. UrGirlfriendz

    UrGirlfriendz New Member

    2,039
    1
    Bridgewater
    Kwa is not even in contention here. My vote is either G&P Sentry or Vfc Mk18. Both are fabulous inside and out and you won't be let down. My overall vote, though, lies with the Vfc Mk18.
     

  3. alex

    alex New Member

    4,794
    4
    Atlanta
    have you considered converting your JG m4 into a CQB m4? there are many options...
    this way, you don't need to replace the gearbox with a JG, LoL (all my CQB guns use JG gearboxes).
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  4. rich635

    rich635 New Member

    1,459
    0
    Los Angeles
    I agree with alex. Put in a new metal receiver (something nice from G&P or Madbull), new RAS (Madbull), new furniture (Magpul), then upgrade some internals (SHS/Lonex). If you really want a new gun, I personally like the G&P Sentry, but that's just me. Actually, a good choice would be the Socom Gear DD/Noveske series, they're around the same price as the ones you listed, they have VFC internals and some of the best externals around (Madbull licensed receivers and RAS + KX3 compensators).
     
  5. Col1500

    Col1500 New Member

    815
    0
    Kent
    Personally, I'd buy a G&G non blowback raider and redo the wiring, motor, gears, and piston. The stock externals are good feeling, but light. And the polymer RIS gives you the functionality of an RIS but it's also really light. Having the battery in the crane stock also makes the front easier to swing around. I think that such a light gun would make a good CQB weapon. Just my $0.02.
     
  6. TheBlazinAsian

    TheBlazinAsian New Member

    580
    0
    I agree with rich. The Socom Gear DD/Noveske series is pretty nice. Madbull externals + VFC internals = one heck of a crazy awesome performing and looking gun. Now that I think of it. I should've bought one of those.

    The Daniel Defense Omega 7" or Noveske 7" would be great choices.
     
  7. bonnax

    bonnax New Member

    447
    0
    London
    Okay so the SR7 is out then - that helps. Still don't see what is so terrible about the KWA externals; can someone enlighten me please?

    I've heard such good things about the externals of VFC and I know they are outstanding, just on this model there seems to be a distinct lack of trades. If you compare it to the Sentry of Troy...well... That's the only thing pulling me away from the VFC.

    I did consider that, but my brother is without a gun so I thought I'd be nice and let him have it ;)

    Are those compensators actually any good? Heard lots of complaints about them making your gun shoot pingpong balls :p

    Had a look at those...they do look tempting. would you put VFC internals over G&P?

    I like realism, so although it's heavy, I much prefer metal receivers and r.a.s. Don't really want to have to redo anything right at the begining, and I think I'm right in saying G&P and VFC > G&G internals? Also, I would prefer to have real trades if possibe..
     
  8. ShooterMcgavin

    ShooterMcgavin New Member

    650
    0
    New Port News
  9. corntato

    corntato New Member

    137
    0
    Kwa just gets hated on waay to much. They are one of the only companies to give a warranty with lipo use. If that dosent say something to you then i can tell you from personal experience (i own a kwa m4) the internals are incredibly good. Unless you want more fps or a crazy rof ( over the stock 20rps) there is nothing that needs upgrading.
    Also the fact that kwa can make a shimless gearbox is a sign of true quality.

    Look at the facts not all these kwa hating guys.

    Not to put down g&p and vfc. Both are excellent also but i believe kwa takes it home in terms of stock performance and reliability
     
  10. ShooterMcgavin

    ShooterMcgavin New Member

    650
    0
    New Port News
    Yeah my G&P preforms just as well as stock KWA using a 7.4v lipo and yet no serious internal problems. *knock on wood* Also the externals are better since the trades are good and the metal feels better.
     
  11. Col1500

    Col1500 New Member

    815
    0
    Kent
    The thing that impresses me about KWA is the good air seal with a non ported piston head. As for the whole shim thing, Systemas are the same, although they're made so precise to where the shimming is the exact same on every one. There's a guide to the internet on where the shims go in a PTW lol. But all guns break at some point, and in CQB a lot of rounds are thrown out. I think the advantage G&P and VFC have is that when even though they could very possibly break before the KWA does, you can get an aftermarket piston like a Lonex or SHS and it'll run a lot longer then a KWA stock piston. I've never held a KWA so I can't compare the externals, but I can say I like my G&Ps externals over VFCs, just through personal opinion. If OP is coming from a JG I think he'll be happy with any of the threes externals lol.
     
  12. corntato

    corntato New Member

    137
    0
    Agreed on the part replacement thing. Although kwa is known for making it very easy to get replacement parts from them i havent compared quality with a good aftermarket piston. Also i haven't experimented with it but i do not believe the kwa piston is proprietary . As far as the shimless idea im pretty sure a systema is out of most of our price ranges lol so kwa should get some recognition for keeping up with the best and keeping it at a normal cost.

    From what i know g&p and vfc have slightly better externals but i think its that they are closer to a real steel. Kwa externals are solid but no real trades or locking charging handle. Things of that sort
     
  13. Bulldawg26

    Bulldawg26 Active Member

    1,179
    2
    Atlanta
    Only the gearbox shell and nozzle are the only truly proprietary parts in KWA guns. I have had good luck with SHS and Guarder parts - especially the SHS "Blue" piston with full metal rack and ported piston head. KWA's are not hard to work on.

    I think that KWA externals are just fine but I'm not a stickler for real steel trades on an airsoft gun. I just want it to perform.
     
  14. levirocks

    levirocks #FreeNuggy Lifetime Supporter

    2,699
    0
    arlington
    All VFC has is good externals for the most part. Their self shimming gears is mediocre at best, clear polycarb piston is brittle IIRC, they havr bad wiring in some guns and they use a speed motor IIRC.

    G&P also has issues with the pistons, gears IIRC and a HS motor. Their externals are decent. Not good, not bad.
     
  15. airsoft35

    airsoft35 New Member

    8
    0
    I'd go with vfc or g&p not kwa because they can be picky on what mags and parts they take. Personnally if I had the choice I'd get g&p over vfc but it's certainly close and g&p is just my personal preference because of what I've heard internally (which I'm most concerned with) but others have said vfc has better internals but I'd say either way u wouldn't need to worry.
     
  16. Archer627

    Archer627 New Member

    6,174
    5
    Figgington
    Air seal is not made using ports in the piston head. Ports in the piston head are to prevent a vacuum inside the cylinder when the gun is cycling.
     
  17. bonnax

    bonnax New Member

    447
    0
    London
    They are picky, that's true, but KWA also has some new polymer mid-caps out which i guess are their version of pmags. I'm assuming they would fit well in a KWA gun considering they're made for one :)

    Ok, so what would you suggest instead of a VFC or G&P? I'm looking at max $380-400.

    You're most certrainly right here...I've had enough of my 'super high quality reinforced ABS receiver'


    Any conclusion then? any other suggestions would be great (but before someone say it...there's something about the HK416 that just doesn't do it for me)
     
  18. airsoft35

    airsoft35 New Member

    8
    0
    Well if you didnt have a problem buying those then kwa would probably not be a problem. I have heard people say they hate kwa and people say they love kwa, but i personally have no experience with them so i couldn't say whether it would be best or not.
     
  19. Col1500

    Col1500 New Member

    815
    0
    Kent
    I think it's to the point where you'll be happy with any one of them... So honestly, I'd just choose the one that looks best to you. Just make sure to use LiPos, when I got a LiPo the trigger response on my G&P competes with most other guns, and on a NiMh the spin up time is horrendous. I've had no problems with my gears either, as many people say they have. You probably won't either since you'll be running a CQB build like me too lol. I'd just replace the piston and piston head when you go ahead and put a spring in. An M90 should work, the SHS M90 put my gun up to 340-345 FPS, DO NOT buy the matrix M90/1J spring, that thing put me up into 370 FPS territory. I cut a couple coils off and still landed at 360 so I had to cut my bucking to get into the field one time.

    Also, the VFC will have the slowest RoF. G&P and KWA compete in that category, though a KWA will last longer stock at that RoF which is why I suggest changing the piston and piston head. Oh, and don't forget to put sorbo in.
     
  20. bonnax

    bonnax New Member

    447
    0
    London
    Right, I'll be going with the G&P Sentry then...Hello VLTOR trades. Probably gonig to use a G&P 7.4v Lipo and 340 is perferct for me so an SHS M90 spring too.

    Thanks for all the help!