Need Help Diagnosing AEG issue

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Wumpy42, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Wumpy42

    Wumpy42 New Member

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    San Luis Obispo
    I have a G&P shell, totally built with 13:1 Siegetek, Gate Titan, etc. The first 20 - 30 bb's dribble out of the barrel, the next 100 - 120 are lasers. I've tried Prommy, G&P, Krytac, and Maxx hopups. I've tried a half a dozen different buckings. I've had this gearbox in a G&P lower, a Kyrtac lower, and a Retro Arms lower. All the same issue regardless. Any idea's what the heck is wrong?
     
  2. yrutimid

    yrutimid Active Member

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    Phoenix
    What bbs are you using, bb weight, and what is your compression set up?
     

  3. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    if you have tried all those combinations of receiver/hop/buckings...
    (and I'll assume a couple of barrels & stuff)

    I take a stab at something within gearbox - like tappet plate
    Doesn't explain why the FIRST 20 bb's are poor
    but then corrects itself for 100 or so floowing bb's

    I'm wondering if something is impeding the tappet plate moving back n forth smoothly
    causing a drop in fps, but then it stops snagging & seals better & proper fps etc...

    BUT - you would think one it has cleared, maybe a tight fit or burr - smoothes itself
    then it "should" in theory run itself in and not snag or not as much

    Tappet could be catching on sector or in runners - tight fit, lack of grease
    a way too long tappet fin is another possibility if cycling quickly

    I'm stabbing at something up with tappet perhaps
    but could be almost anything - heck a cracked spring or something daft
    (a bent up too large o-ring, catching at times on a large cylinder port)

    think the box is due to cracked open, take some pics & give a little more info
    coz there has to be something very strange out of sync or alignment imho

    very strange symptoms
     
  4. Wumpy42

    Wumpy42 New Member

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    San Luis Obispo
    Almost always run .32. But I've tried .28 and .36 just for shits and giggles. No difference. Also, same issue with G&P mags, PTS EPM mags, and just tried EPM-1's today, no change. So frustrating.
     
  5. Wumpy42

    Wumpy42 New Member

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    San Luis Obispo
    Yeah, I've been at this airsoft business for quite awhile. Never seen an issue so intermittent, but consistent. It's really frustrating. I think your right, it's time to crack open the gearbox.
     
  6. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    6,759
    4,092
    Minneapolis
    What nozzle are you using?

    I think its a nozzle and packing issue...it's taking a few (20) shot to stretch the packing and then when it's stretched it's fine and then the packing settles from lack of use and you problem comes up again.

    So...is the nozzle "special"?
     
  7. Splode

    Splode Well-Known Member

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    476
    Fresno
    I fixed a problem on an m4 a while back that was similar though not as pronounced. The problem was the piston o-ring being too small. What was happening though is that because of his shoddy piston lubrication, the o-ring would actually expand after a few shots from the friction warming it a little.
    I'm not saying that this is what is happening but it might be worth checking any seals or o-rings that might be likely to expand after warming them up with a few shots. I'd imagine even the packing will expand a bit from the nozzle and the bbs rubbing it.
    From a logic perspective, the fact that it starts working after firing it a bit and then stops once it's been sitting for a bit means that it could ONLY be heat. The only thing that would change after 20 or so shots is temperature/friction related. Everything else in a gun is clockwork mechanics and doesn't change unless it is breaking for good. If something changes only with use, it is caused by something external to the gun mechanics and that only leaves the option of heat or in some rare cases dirt buildup. But with dirt buildup you generally won't see a gun return to its previous state after resting for a while. It's most likely heat related (or like guges said, something is expanding and then settling.)
    Sorry if my explanation was redundant or repetitive in areas.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  8. danerd

    danerd Well-Known Member

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    858
    Ozark
    This is a classic case of "midcap syndrome". This occurs when the feed springs for your magazines are too strong and force BBs against your air nozzle with enough force to move it and cause low FPS and misfeeds.

    The easiet remedy for this to trim a few coils off of your tappet spring to increase tension on the tappet and nozzle assembly. Gluing the nozzle in place can also help as well. Trimming is a trial and error process, so only cut a few at a time.
     
  9. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    I always though of midcap syndrome was more a case of crappy midcaps

    You know, them terrible midcaps you bought cheap thinking they would work
    Then found out as the spring snaked through tight sharp bends with possible burrs
    the bb's would snag & stop feeding, leaving you thinking it was feeding fine...
    but then stopped - must be bucking/nozzle issue

    change various bits - still no joy
    (well no - duhhh, you are still using the SAME crappy midcaps that snag)

    Cyma metal midcaps are pretty damn good, the few I have that is (120/190)
    wish I just bought those & avoided those cheaper snagging mags I bought

    To me, suffering midcap syndrome is encountering feed issues
    and foolishly think it can't be the moody midcap coz midcaps are awesome
    (not them crappy cheapo midcaps though)

    (and more fool me for tearing the box apart without testing on good high caps)
     
  10. Splode

    Splode Well-Known Member

    1,052
    476
    Fresno
    I suppose this could be the case but it would be a really easy thing to check. In this case, the reason the gun would fire well after 20 or so shots would be because the mag spring would theoretically lose tension. Try putting like only 30 bbs in the mag and then fire the gun cold. If it works, then there is your problem. If it still doesn't work for the first 20 or so shots then it's pretty unlikely.
     
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