[JOSEF ZHOVTIS]

Hey guys,

Doing a DSG build and here are parts I am thinking about:

Goal for the build: Mainly indoor player but sometimes outdoor. I want to be able to swap the spring and seamlessly change fields/fps limits. My main goal is to get the best possible trigger response. I don't care much about rate of fire...

Base gun: VFC MCX

Retro arms 8mm qcs gearbox
Siegetek 10:78 or 20:15 DSG gear set
Modify ceramic bearings
Lonex double o-ring cylinder head
Lonex stainless steel cylinder
Lonex pom piston head
Lonex air nozzle
Lonex V2/V3 Anti-Reversal Latch
Kratos full metal piston
Option 1 brushless motor
Shs tappet plate
Maxx me pro hop up unit
Modify flat nub and bucking
Action army tight bore (290mm) 6.03mm
Gate titan basic
Black Maxx adjustable 'E type" trigger

Again my goal with this build is not to get the maximum rps -- I only care about instant trigger response. Which gear set ratio would you recommend, Siegetek 10:78 or 20:15?

Thanks in advance!

 

[TsukiKanade]

High RoF and trigger response tend to go hand in hand since it depends on how quickly the gears make a full cycle. My vote goes for the 10:78 set with the high torque version of the Option 1 brushless motor. As for the other parts, I'll let others chime in on those.

 

[JOSEF ZHOVTIS]

Thanks for the response and feedback.

And as for efficiency?

That’s why I was initially leaning toward 20:1 DSG because the MCX has a small battery compartment up front and I can’t fit a proper battery in there.

Best I can do is an 11.1 lipo 1400mah 20c

 

[Ben3721]

I would not use a retro arms shell, they don't machine their bushing/bearing holes accurately at all causing many to wreck their bevels. I've already damaged a seigetek bevel, motor and 3 pinions bad because of this. It is all of their v2 shells, seen enough in person to be able to boldly say this is a widespread issue. They also brushed off everyone who complained too.

I've also seen enough Maxx hop up units with poor tolerances inside the feed tube causing feeding issues. Unfortunately this also hasn't been fixed. Some get them to work but I've found they don't work as well as other hop up units with high rps builds.

I would go with the 14:1 dsg or the 10:1, there will be less stress between the pinion and bevel with the 14:1 when running that motor.

That motor also will run perfectly fine on a weaker, lower voltage battery compared your typical motor, it's insane what brushless can do apparently.

Also if you can post a video once you done that would be awesome I'd love to see the build!

 

[JOSEF ZHOVTIS]

I would not use a retro arms shell, they don't machine their bushing/bearing holes accurately at all causing many to wreck their bevels. I've already damaged a seigetek bevel, motor and 3 pinions bad because of this. It is all of their v2 shells, seen enough in person to be able to boldly say this is a widespread issue. They also brushed off everyone who complained too.

I've also seen enough Maxx hop up units with poor tolerances inside the feed tube causing feeding issues. Unfortunately this also hasn't been fixed. Some get them to work but I've found they don't work as well as other hop up units with high rps builds.

I would go with the 14:1 dsg or the 10:1, there will be less stress between the pinion and bevel with the 14:1 when running that motor.

That motor also will run perfectly fine on a weaker, lower voltage battery compared your typical motor, it's insane what brushless can do apparently.

Also if you can post a video once you done that would be awesome I'd love to see the build!

Noted, thanks! Will definitely post a video when it's built.

One more question... I am second guessing my motor choice and wondering if I should go for the Warhead Industries brushless motor instead... for now I chose the Option No. 1 High Torque.

Their motors come in a few different speeds but I would go for either the 36k or the 52k.

Of course I want to avoid PME since I mostly use semi auto and my field's limit is 330 fps.

Not sure what motor speed to get, but hypothetically if I went with a 20:1 dsg gear set which motor would I get?

If I went with the 10:1 which motor speed would be ideal for that gear set?

Again, trigger response is all I care about.

 

[Ben3721]

So the math would be pretty easy.

Let's say you want to cap it at 65rps. And you wish to use 20:1 gears. Youll need to know for how many turns of the motor that you'd get a shot. Since it's it's dsg it would be twice as much. For a 20:1 dsg set, it spins one full rotation every 20 motor rotations, but fires twice.

So mathematically we will actually be treating the 20:1 dsg set like a 10:1 ssg set. And the 10:1 almost like a non existent 5:1 set

So for the 20:1, Since the motor must spin 10 times per 1 shot, that means if it shoots 65 rounds it must turn 650 times, since we predetermined off the rps goal that means we need to multiply by 60 to get the rpm requirement, that number lands as 39k for the 20:1 dsg set, and the 10:1 gearset Is roughly half that speed. So near 19.5krpm

Or go with the 14:1 which is slightly below their average. Which would land more like 27k rpm.

I would go with either 14:1 or the 20:1

Or say screw it and just use any 18:1 bevel and spur and then benefit off using the 9 tooth dsg sector.

That would give you 55rps at 30k motor rpm with a respectable fps without pme or extra stress of a 8 tooth dsg. But it's indoor so that may not be ideal.

 

[JOSEF ZHOVTIS]

That’s as really eloquently put. Thank you.

Okay so I general, I would only need the 36k warhead brushless motor whichever way I go.

For the sake of argument, if I didn’t care about rate of fire. Which gear set combo (20:1 dsg) or (10:1 dsg) would yield the best trigger response when paired with a warhead 36k and a gate titan?

FYI, I would use about an m150 spring. Hopefully that will not induce PME with either gear set.

 

[Ben3721]

Well there's a little more too it, you see, higher ratio gear sets tend to be louder due to meshing, and not in a good way. But you likely won't notice it much. But too low and the stress point becomes between bevel and pinion. As well as the motor shaft where the D cutout for the pinion stops. If you shim right and have proper motor height it likely will work fine with 10:1 and be snappy in semi.

I do believe many techs prefer the warhead over the option number 1 but I'm not sure why.

With that spring you could do the 10:1 then run a 2 cell lipo and get surprisingly good performance.