Noob question, ICS Sig 551 Swat, lipo or no?

Discussion in 'Beginners Forum' started by TheHeckboy1, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. TheHeckboy1

    TheHeckboy1 New Member

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    I'm relatively new to Airsoft. Goofing around with friends, planning on travelling to a big game sometime in the near future.

    In the past ive played in a lot of "Big Game" paintball games. (PA D-DAY etc,) so new but not a total newb.

    In a latenight drunken episode I ordered a PP-19 Bizon off of evike and have been mostly satisfied with my purchase.

    But the lady that really caught my eye was the ICS SIG 551 SWAT, after lusting after her for a month or so I stumbled on a fantastic, nay, irresistible deal.

    Needless to say, my new date arrives tomorrow, and lo-an behold, I only have an 11.1 1200mh stick battery. Can I use it to test out my new SIG without damaging anything? The S&T Bizon specifically states "lipo ready" where the SIG does not.

    I know ICS is one of the top tier manufactures, once you reach a certain level is Lipo ready, just assumed?

    Help prevent me from accidentally damaging my new love.
     
  2. theonlyBuster

    theonlyBuster Active Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'll spare you my "Lipo Ready" rant and simply say that the phrase is TOTALLY pointless and very asinine. How pointless and asinine? It's the equivalent of saying car is 93Octane-Ready. (93 Octane = Premium gasoline).

    Use the battery for testing and light play is fine, but ultimately plan on getting a lower voltage low to medium output 7.4v Lipo OR a NiMh battery. And for the record, this goes for ANY gun, mid shelf or top level. Some things need to be gun after purchasing, and these things simply are not properly done in the manufacturing stage. Not to say they're bad, but that they ONLY really good enough on low to medium stress rather than the increased stresses of a high output battery.

    Also, because I see this question coming, your gun WILL very likely last a few games on a 11.1v Lipo, but count on your gun breaking down significantly quicker than it would on a more normal basis.

    -mobile device-
     

  3. mikejosephman

    mikejosephman Moderator Alligator Staff Member Moderator

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    ICS handles lipo just fine.
    Just 1200 mah isn't going to harm anything.
     
  4. TheHeckboy1

    TheHeckboy1 New Member

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    Thank you both! I tried it out today to make sure everything is working, But I'll probably be getting a different battery for it. As this will be my "main"
     
  5. BoogerMc

    BoogerMc Airsoft Jedi Master Supporting Member

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    It's not the milliamps that will cause you issues, it's the voltage. You can have an 11.1v battery with only 700 mah and you can still destroy your gun, but you can have a 7.4v 5,000 mah battery that will run your gun just fine for hours or days. The more your voltage increases, the faster your motor turns, and the more stress on your internals.

    Think of electricity like water, you have a tank of water (battery) that holds 500 gallons and you empty this tank through a pipe that is one inch in internal diameter. The rate at which the water flows is your amps, the amount of pressure behind the water is your voltage. With this small of a pipe, it will take a long time to empty the tank, but because of the weight of the water pushing through this small of a pipe, there is a large amount of pressure behind the flow of water. In other words, low amps and high voltage.

    Now increase the internal diameter of the pipe to three inches, the water flows faster, but with less pressure. It will take less time to empty the tank because more water can flow out of it at a faster rate or high amps and low voltage.

    Hope this explains it better and helps you in some way.
     
  6. KRNAZNBOY

    KRNAZNBOY New Member

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    How does capacity have anything to do with whether its going to harm his gun or not? It doesn't matter whether he will use a 800 mah battery or a 150000000 mah battery, the voltage is the same so the gun will perform the same, although it will be significantly heavier to carry around.

    That statement bugs me so much, but thats the electrical engineer inside me talking XD

    EDIT: Also, making generalizations based on brand is silly. That's like saying one phone case will fit every apple product ever. I don't think you can put an iphone case on a macbook...
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  7. mikejosephman

    mikejosephman Moderator Alligator Staff Member Moderator

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    It's just the "guy who has owned all the guns" in me that says those types of things. I make a generalization, because it's faster and simpler. I don't pretend to know what Booger is talking about, I just know that it works and won't hurt his internals.

    ICS is known for solid internal parts, with few if any flaws.
    Calm down engineer.
     
  8. QCDiscus

    QCDiscus Member

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    I run and have for 2 years , a 7.4 lipo , on my SIG 552 and it runs flawlessly . An 11V will increase Rounds per second but puts unneeded stress on internals.
     
  9. KRNAZNBOY

    KRNAZNBOY New Member

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    *It should be "more simple" not "simpler"
    And that's a crappy reason to make generalizations in my opinion...

    Generalization also might lead to a noob breaking their gun because they listened to some half-researched half-assed "generalization" you put out as a fact on the forum.

    The fact that you referenced battery capacity as a determining factor in a gun's lipo-ready-ness (lithium polymers have different VOLTAGES not different CAPACITIES) makes me worry for every person you have every given advice to :p

    No hard feelings mate, just please don't answer questions you don't have the knowledge to answer.
     
  10. mikejosephman

    mikejosephman Moderator Alligator Staff Member Moderator

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    oh once again, forgive me wise master. really don't see why you insist on a pissing match, the ics 551 will handle the 11.1 no matter what either of us says. you can keep insisting you are right, but truth is discharge does make a difference, hence why some guns shoot better with a larger capacity battery.

    i have actual experience with several guns, not just theory i learned in a book. true motor and gear ratios come into play, but a large portion of it is the battery size as well as voltage. insulting another person with different* knowledge than you, is a fast ticket out of here.

    it's sad really. but don't let me stop you, continue your ramblings.
    funny you choose this meaningless thread to stretch your legs on.
     
  11. KRNAZNBOY

    KRNAZNBOY New Member

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    Notice, you said "discharge" which NOT capacity. You are correct, discharge does change how a motor performs, NOT the capacity, which you stated first (when you said "1200mah wont hurt anything").

    The only way that capacity could affect how a gun shoots is indirectly through discharge rate. Higher capacity batteries have generally higher discharge rates, so the voltage will sag less under load, yielding higher performance.

    However, this doesn't work the other way, as too much capacity can't hurt anything... Battery capacity doesn't directly affect the motors or gear ratios.

    If you have a large amount of experience with these guns, I believe you and respect what you have to say regarding them. My issue is not with your extensive knowledge of AEGs (i have none XD). I never explicitly disagreed with you that ISCs can handle 3 cell lipos.

    This isn't a pissing match. It was supposed to be a calm and educated discussion about the effects of voltage and capacity on the performance of a Single model of airsoft gun...

    Sorry if I offended you. Just wanted to get the facts straight...
     
  12. mikejosephman

    mikejosephman Moderator Alligator Staff Member Moderator

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    just a little proofreading done.
     
  13. BoogerMc

    BoogerMc Airsoft Jedi Master Supporting Member

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    Perhaps I can clear this up, first the voltage of a battery is not the same as the capacity of the battery. Refer back to my water example, capacity is the same as volume, in that a battery rated at 1 amp (1,000 milliamps) has less capacity than one rated at 2 amps (2,000 milliamps); just as a tank of water that hold 500 gallons has less capacity as one that holds 1,000 gallons. If the discharge rate of both batteries is equal and remains constant, the 1 amp will die before the 2 amp battery. By comparison, if the two water tanks empty at the same flow rate, the 500 gallon one will run out of water first.

    Voltage is basically how much power the battery can provide, which by comparison is the same as how much pressure the water in the tank exerts when released. A lower voltage battery, say 3 volts provides less power than say a 9 volt battery. If both batteries are connected to identical motors and both batteries have the same discharge rate and the same mah rating, then they will both last the same amount of time, but the 9 volt battery will spin its motor faster than the 3 volt battery's motor. By comparison, if the 500 gallon tank of water has a drain pipe of two inches in diameter, and the 1,000 gallon tank of water has a drain pipe of one inch in diameter, the water in the larger tank will provide more pressure at the end of the drain pipe than the water in the smaller tank because it must flow out of a smaller opening.

    In other words, it is not the capacity of a battery that matters when applying stress to the internals of an AEG, it is the voltage. The higher the voltage, the faster the gun will shoot because the faster the motor will spin. However, the gear ratio does affect this. The higher the gear ratio, the slower the gears turn.

    Therefore, let's present an example of how this changes the overall performance of the gun. Two identical guns, both running a 7.4 volt battery, a stock motor, and all other parts are stock except the gears. One has a gear ratio of 18:1 and the other has a gear ratio of 32:1. The ratio determines the number of rotations between the bevel gear and the sector gear, for every 18 rotations of the bevel gear, the sector gear turns one time, same as with the other set but the bevel rotates 32 times to every one turn of the sector. Thus, if the two guns use the same battery and motor, the only difference is how many times the bevel gear turns compared to the sector gear. The lower ratio gun will fire more rounds per second than the higher ratio gun because even though both gun's bevel gears are turning at the same speed or revolutions per second, the lower ratio gun's bevel gear must turn fewer times to spin its sector gear one time.

    If we change the voltage of the higher ratio gun to 14.8, twice that of the other battery, we should expect the higher ratio gun's motor to turn twice as fast and thereby spin its bevel gear twice as fast, which will increase its rate of fire. Mind you this is all theoretical and "on paper." In the real world, the increase may not be as pronounced as expected, but it will be there.

    In conclusion, all things being the same, a lower voltage battery provides less power and thereby less stress to an AEG than does a higher voltage battery. Although both batteries will operate the gun, the higher voltage battery will likely kill the gun faster than the lower voltage battery simply because it puts more stress and therefore more wear and tear on the gun. As for the ability of an ICS to handle the higher voltage battery, again it will operate, but is more likely to break something internally sooner than expected or at least sooner than it would with a lower voltage battery.

    I hope this clears things up and we can all just get along. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
  14. TheHeckboy1

    TheHeckboy1 New Member

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    Thanks for your help, This clears things up quite a bit.
    I used the 11.1 in my SIG just to test it out, worked great. ANd Im happy with the purchase, despite having a little trouble finding decent mags for it.

    And a week later I fell into a deal for a "like new" G&G UMP (UMG) for $100. I just couldn't resist. That handled the 11.1 as well, although I'm probably not going to run it with that very much.

    Thank you again for your help!