Objective Battery Test Titan LION vs. Kypom LIPO vs. HV LIPO

Discussion in 'Electric Guns' started by Guges Mk3, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    None, I have an electronics background since 99/00 and half an EE degree that I abandoned. If you are interested in my past projects then here's the 'greatest hits'

    Gaming
    * XB360 power board used as USB controller dongle - with some soldering and a driver hack, you can use it as a receiver for using XB360 controllers on PC
    * Fightstick in XB360 chassis - Imageshack ate my build thread photos during account transfer but here's one of the finished project that I found again recently
    * n3DSXL soldering for flash adapter - for legal purposes I have no idea what can be done after doing this mod

    RC hobby
    * Homebrew drift LED flasher circuit - emulating the double-flash drifter lights on my 1:10 Supra body
    * ESC piggyback controller - basically a second-stage MOSFET that unlocks the voltage/current limit of the original
    * Triple stack MOSFET replacement - I replaced SMD MOSFETs with a triple stack of stronger ones to run the motor that blew the original chips

    Automotive
    * 97 4Runner ECU repair - truck died, would not start. No power to fuel pump and IAC valve buzzing when key is ON turned out to be caused by capacitor plague and corroded trace
    * 90 RX-7 electronics overhaul - resoldered ECU plugs (known weak point), idiot lights module (broken clock), and turn signal switch (no hi-beams). As it turns out, full current flows through the steering column stalks and the traces for hi-beams were all burned off. Also did LED retrofits into interior lights (no link since all photos are down anyway)

    general electronics
    * Heartbeat/'breathing' nightlight - 'dumb' heartbeat flasher circuit, most modern projects use Arduinos but I used 555 timer instead
    * 12+12W amp/level meter - revived an old high school project built in 04 or 05 with modern LEDs, demo its function with the opening of a friend's first live set
     
  2. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    (Hate doing double posts but I think it's justified to keep this information easily linkable)

    Recently new lipo from Guges to test, which is claimed to be a 2000mAh 30C gen 8+ battery.

    [​IMG]
    This is probably the most generic packaging I've ever seen lol

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    Doing a quick check on the cell condition, Guges charged it and claimed it completed at 4.19v/cell.

    They are out of balance already. This does not bode well lol

    [​IMG]
    Running a translation of the box and sticker, this is mostly generic lithium battery safety stuff. A couple things stand out though

    Interestingly though there is a maximum voltage of 4.25v/cell, this is not quite Li-HV terrirory (4.35v/cell) but perhaps shows a change in chemistry

    Charging current is listed at 3A, so 1.5C. I will still charge at 1C or less

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    Immediate testing ESR shows around 1.7% variance between cells, overall continuous draw is 27.4A/14C.

    This is disappointing but eh whatever it's basically the industry standard lol. At least Kypom wasn't lying as hard lol

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    Uh oh. Did a top-off charge then did a discharge at 2A and we only got 829mAh out of it.

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    Threw it straight on the balance charger and the cell voltages don't lie. Cell 1 and 2 are below 3v and all three are out of balance as predicted by the IR measurement.

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    B6AC threw in 846mAh back in. I guess this is the actual capacity of the battery.

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    Ran another discharge, this time at 1A, on the TC1030 and saw 723mAh come out before terminating at 2.5v/cell. Throwing the battery right back on the B6AC shows that cell 2 is doing better but cell 1 is still severely out of balance.

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    It was at this time that the battery puffed on one side, corresponding to cell 1. Not surprising but still disappointing

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    768mAh went back in so this really is a sub-1000mAh battery pretending to be a 2000mAh. Congratulations HongJie on the being the first battery to overestimate both C rating AND capacity by 2x or more.

    I will run a few more charge/discharge cycles to get more data points but as we are now here are the stats

    HongJie 452096 3s 2000mAh 30C (stick)
    Capacity - 792mAh, 39.6%
    IR - 46.87mΩ, 14C, 27.4A
    Either I got a dud or this is the terrible case of false advertising. Averaging 40% the claimed capacity and 47% the claimed discharge rating.
    Verdict: Bad QC or lying specs - not sure which. Avoid until they prove they have corrected the product
     
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  3. OutlawAirsoft

    OutlawAirsoft Active Member

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    Hamilton
    Love this stuff...
     
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  4. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Want another one to test?

    I can actually return this one, or perhaps you should cut open the wrap and see what's under it.
     
  5. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

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    Ocean Springs
    Do it, do it, do it!

    What makes a battery puff?
     
  6. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the support!

    Sure, two data points would help with understanding.

    Let me know if it's ok to dissect and I will do so.

    Lipos puff when they are stressed, due to accelerated electrolyte decomposition. Charging too much (charging via wrong chemistry), discharging too far (no LVC/alarm), overheating (charging/discharging too fast for too long). They also can puff with age or if you lose the QC lottery as decomposition is something that is continuously happening. I've gotten lipos in 2020 pre-puffed from the factory, and my oldest surviving pack is from 2007 and still tight.

    Most important is that puffing means the internal laminations have potentially separated, meaning the IR of the cell is now greater than what it was before. If you've ever charged a puffy lipo you probably noticed it getting hot. This is the reason why using them in that state is dangerous since you probably discharge lipos at a much higher rate than 1C.

    If you want to read a technical article that breaks down (heheh) the chemistry, check this one out
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenrg.2014.00059/full
     
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  7. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Ill send another and a label to return this one.
     
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  8. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    Acknowledged, I will halt testing on this one and leave it as is.

    I did take one more IR measurement and the results are interesting
    upload_2021-10-12_11-56-15.png
    We see c1 IR rise 2.54mΩ, 13.8% increase just from charging the lipo between 1-1.5C and discharging the lipo between 0.5-2C. C2 rose about half as much, and c3 a marginal amount. An overall pack increase of 3.77mΩ and a loss of an entire C discharge rating just from 4 complete cycles is not optimistic for this pack's lifespan.

    Keep in mind these two measurements were taken within a 24 hour period, where the battery was kept in a climate controlled room at 65°F throughout all testing.
     
  9. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    Update, I got the new battery in a couple days ago and the test results are here

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    Brand new sealed

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    Took a reading straight out of the package, it shipped just under half charge. I slowly charged it through an adapter and then change out the connector to a Deans clone later.

    [​IMG]
    First discharge ran at 2C as usual, and after that 4A cycle we are left again with cells severely out of balance. This time we have cell 3 stabilizing below 3.0v

    [​IMG]
    Unsurprisingly, cell 3 puffed during this cycle.

    This battery actually tested worse than the last one.

    HongJie 452096 3s 2000mAh 30C (stick) #2
    Capacity - 782mAh, 39.10%
    IR - 59.73mΩ, 12C, 23.7A
    Second time proves that the first test sample was very unlikely an outlier, this really is closer to an 850mAh 20C lipo. The average cycle is dictated by the weakest cell, which tends to be around 700-730mAh. When properly discharged to 3.0v/cell before doing a charge cycle, both of the HongJie lipos averaged around 810-840mAh. Both batteries had cells that puffed upon first discharge that is well within both claimed and measured spec.
    Verdict: Avoid at all cost

    I'll dissect this one when I have a chance.
     
  10. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Do NOT buy these packs on Amazon.
     
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  11. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    I left a review linking to the test results post, hopefully it gets approved.
     
  12. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I flamed them too...