R-Hop isn’t working

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Nitren, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. wetpee

    wetpee Active Member

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    @Nitren That is indeed a ML Monster packing, denoted by the 4 lines. Super macaron is a single wavy line, MR is a wavy line plus a raised dot. I don't much experience with the Monster so I couldn't tell you if that's a common problem or not. I've never seen that issue with the newer ML packings. I've been quite a fan of them, especially the new 2021 silicone models, but I'm also a fan of the Begadi packings, especially the longer contact patch models.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  2. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Also, one thing you must do for Airsoft in the USA.

    Take American Consumerism and throw it out the window. It does not apply in Airsoft.

    Packing Lip sizes have no standard. This has been true for over 15 years. This has been more prevalent over the last 8 years as regional manufacturing variances continue to diverge more severely.

    I have old pictures where I calipered diameters of packings and the range from 5.17 to 5.98mm. Then throw on top the variances and bbs and if you put a small bore 5.93mm into the mix and it will do what you see in your video.

    It's a sport of knowing the details not and nothing is as simplistic as it could be and should be...
     

  3. Graybeard

    Graybeard Active Member

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    I’ve been using Rhopped barrels for a short time. I’ve only used them, so far, with .32-.40 gram weights. The barrels work great for me. Now I’ve read in a few places that you don’t want to use lighter weight bbs in R hops. So if the OP was using .28 and not seeing a positive effect; should he have tried a heavier bb first?

    I’m not a doctor, but play one on TV…….
     
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  4. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Additional details would have been helpful for we are just making suppositions.

    When he cited accuracy issues...he didn't say if they were hitting the ground before the target or skying over the target.

    Plus "150" is not "long" range. Most stock AEG's can hit 50 yards out of the box. With R-Hop, a heavy bb (.28+) he should be ranging out to 70+ yards.
     
  5. Nitren

    Nitren New Member

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    Panama City
    The reason that I went with ZCI is because I am on a budget and can’t drop $60/$100 on a barrel, and they were the cheapest “upgrade” barrel that I could find. I got what I paid for. But from what I’ve read the MadBull Black Python 6.03 is a good barrel (yes it won’t be as good as a $60 Laylax, $75 Lambda, or a $100 PDI) but when compared to a stock brass barrel wouldn’t they perform better (tighter groupings, and slightly improved range)? Also the barrel would be flat hopped not r hopped.
     
  6. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Why would you surmise that would be consistently, true?

    Shoot the wrong bb and your accuracy and range will decrease.

    This is due to barrel turbulence and the plunger effect.

    In Asia all the "experienced" players don't use 6.03mm and definitely don't use 6.01mm anymore. Tightest they go is 6.05mm and many run stock 6.08mm
     
  7. Nitren

    Nitren New Member

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    Because there are hundreds of “upgrade” barrels on the market, and hundreds of thousands of people who buy them and swear that their groupings are tighter.

    I’m not shooting 0.12g bbs from Walmart, I use 0.28g EMG bio and only because I couldn’t find Elite Force 0.28g bio at the time that I bought them.

    Again if an “upgrade” barrel doesn’t do anything then why are there so many of them and why did Ben3721 say
    That is why I would
    Yes the method of hop (stock, ML, flat-hop, r-hop, er-hop, s-hop) is the most important factor that determines how accurate the gun is. But why would a better barrel not increase accuracy? Or am I just an idiot and misunderstood what you said? Because that is probably what is happened.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  8. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    882
    455
    From what I have seen. A fresh clean polished 6.08 or 6.05 brass barrel is more accurate than a stock stainless 6.01-6.03 tight bore.
    However a lapped or well polished stainless tight bore will be consistently more accurate because it doesn't corrode rapidly like a brass barrel.
    But wide bore orga barrels will always be the most accurate even though they are brass. Stainless also wears slower. So a polish/lap will last much much longer.

    Another issue is stainless barrels are harder to make. The tooling tends to wear out faster leading to defects inside the bore, such as ripples.

    The pdi and lambda have more ripples in them than most brass barrels.
    Every time the machine presses the tube down to the barrel specs there's basically a floated center rod that shapes the bore, if the rod isn't perfect it will cause ripples inside the bore.

    For stainless barrels laylax is top when it comes to bore consistency in my experience.
    I lap barrels, even the best lapping will not get ripples out of a pdi or higher end lambda. They are the same oem too.

    I'm incredibly OCD. I cut my bbs in half to make sure they are solid when I get a new bag, i make sure my r and flat hops are perfectly level, and my barrels are all lapped and perfectly straight with no wiggle. Under those conditions a tighter bore will preform better than a stock brass barrel. The wider bore tolerates other inconsistencies in stock setups better than let's say a 6.01 would.

    Even then if I had an hpa setup id run a orga barrel with a light polish with a r hop. I just run tighter bores to gain back some fps in a aeg.

    Stay away from any barrel that has o ring cutouts up front. They deform the bore even on the inside causing bb residue to build up, this includes zci barrels and some of laylax speciality barrels. Zci barrels also aren't very straight.


    Most of everything I've mentioned is overkill to the average player trying to hit another player within 50 yards. But if you want tight groupings up to the end of your possible range, it's going to take some serious tinkering, of which some here will say, isn't really worth the effort.
     
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  9. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Upgrade is a subjective term.

    I sure you will have noticed this, but if not, I will write this again. There are no Standards in Airsoft. You can take a stick of string cheese, bore out a rough 6mm hole and sell it as an upgrade barrel and they wouldn't be wrong.

    And yes, thousand have bought" upgrade barrels and thousand have been fleeced for buying a stock part in new packaging at 2500% markup because they just didn't know better. I was once one of these newbs too and 1000 lemmings running off a cliff is still 1000 lemmings falling to their deaths. Or in our case, 1000 players who are $30.00 lighter in their pockets.

    So, yes most barrels are "not" upgrades and are only laterals at best.

    American Consumerism does not apply in airsoft. The retailers/distributors knows the mentality of an airsofter and they capitalize on it.

    And Ben said what he said is due to one thing...experience. He knows better and he knows what to look for.

    Better accuracy is mainly due to this one fact. The BB diameter is smaller than bore diameter.

    Take any airsoft barrel of a significant length and plug the muzzle with your finger. Then drop a bb in the breech side. Watch it drop down the barrel...what does it do? Well, the same thing happens when you shoot it out with pressure from a mechbox.

    The bb does not touch the wall of the barrel as it travels down it's length on a cushion of air around the bb. Thus that is why a TBB is not better for accuracy. It's better for FPS.

    Best accuracy comes from BB quality, hop-up consistency and then the barrel in that order.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022 at 1:55 PM
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  10. The Lords Hand

    The Lords Hand Member

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    Guges living in MN you know our weather. How long would the average brass barrel be good for with all the humidity? Beyond swabbing mine out with alcohol i wouldnt know what to look for that would decrease its performance. I also was looking at the zci barrels but wont be buying one after this.
     
  11. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Humidity isn't so much an issue if it's cased in not sitting in water.

    Note Airsoft regions in Asia has a higher humidity index than we do and they still prefer brass barrels.
     
  12. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

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    What is a good barrel that is properly priced and is better than stock?
     
  13. Adil

    Adil New Member

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    New York
    Any misalignment and it will distort the opening to prevent seating of the bb.
     
  14. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    You know I am going to hit you up for details.

    Which Stock barrel? TM grade AEG's? Or something around APS?
     
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  15. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

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    Lol, I would expect nothing less:D

    I suppose a TM spec? I am just preparing myself for my Arcturus barrel to rust with in the next 6 months or so.
     
  16. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

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    There are nickel coated brass barrels. But I wouldn't touch those...

    Coated/plated steel barrels, Lambda makes a coated steel one, which comes with beautiful ripples down the bore and slight pealing right out of the box.

    There is also anodized aluminum barrels. Just don't look at it too long or it will start bending on its own. And don't shoot too much or the anodized layer will come off in spots.

    Then there's stainless barrels. Such as PDI/nicer Lambda's, zci or Laylax.
    Stainless is very forgiving, doesn't scratch easy and the polish lasts much longer. Even if the barrel is wet from condensation it won't be harmed.

    Laylax is my favorite, they have different models with different windows and c clip cutouts for a few brands. They also don't have any ripples like pdi and lambda seem to always have.

    You can't see ripples until you lap or polish a barrel. Lapping can't really remove them if they are bad.
     
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  17. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I hate to say it but SystemA brass are nicely made brass barrels...smooth as glass on the inside...no extrusion lines what so ever.

    I also have some KM Teflon Barrels...these things are 18 years old...and I had some Palsonite Azimuth barrels...regular steel...tough coating...
     
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