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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alrighty my teching friends, I thought it would be a while before I got around to this but I might as well fish around for some advice and ideas now. Current DSG build from my last thread is at a solid 47 RPS, it should be higher but I suspect the motor is overloaded (ASG 30k boost pulling an SP140). Based on the RPS calculation, even with an inefficient set up (like mine - constant 675) it should be a little bit over 50 RPS.
Anyhow as stated I'm on the road to 60+ RPS. I was thinking of a tienly 30k paired with a hacked 12:1 DSG. Would the Tienly be strained and start sacrificing RPS? If so, I guess a 25k would be more viable. Or what about the 30k paired with 16:1 DSG? How would that stack up compared to the 25k with 12:1's? RPS formula isn't really giving me much help here, as a tienly 30k has a higher TPA than most while still maintaining its RPM, so that screws up my numbers.
Another concern would be my piston assembly...it's currently at 17 grams, but is that enough with an SP140 pushing 60 RPS? Caution leans me towards no, but what do you guys say?
***This is all under the assumption of testing with an 11.1 v lipo 2200mah "50c" <--skeptical of the discharge rate but whatever.
 

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Tienly won't even sweat on SP140. It really is a better made motor, of which you don't see the benefits on "paper".

You could even go 35K in a Tienly on a SP140
 

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Went with a Frankentorque last time I did a 12:1 DSG. Make sure you don't get the older style SHS/Rocket DSG with round holes in it as a donor, you want the version that has slots. Tappet pins on both donors need to be pressed out, can be a pain even with the ~right tools. Do not hammer them out or back in, they are fairly soft and will deform - use a punch only if no other option to avoid deformation. Push them out the top on both donors (top being the part that interacts with the piston). The pin holes on the new DSG 'top' will line up with one screw hole and the origional ssg tappet pin hole on your 12:1 'bottom', will need to drill the threads out of that one screw hole to make it fit. Heat will help get the screws out without stripping the heads. The screw holes on the dsg top will not line up with the bottom and are two close to the edge to drill out. The lower gear / bottom on your new DSG is hardened steel, very difficult to drill and tap. The DSG top is mild steel, easy to drill a new hole in.
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Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Tienly won't even sweat on SP140. It really is a better made motor, of which you don't see the benefits on "paper".

You could even go 35K in a Tienly on a SP140
I recall you saying in another thread that your 30k was pulling an M190 at about 30k RPM, pretty crazy.

Rm105 I don't know if I've got the proper tools or skill to hack a 12:1 yet (did you use a drill press?) plus I have the older DSG gear, but thanks for the tips! Maybe some day...

Anyway maybe a tienly 30k in my current 16:1 DSG? Sounds like the easiest way to boost RPS significantly at the moment.
 

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That is what they are rated for.

Zombie over drove a 45K on a M130 and 4S. It was way beyond spec. But it lasted 3 months and only thing that gave out was a solder joint.
 

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I would recommend lowering the piston weight if you're aiming for 60+ RPS with an SP140 spring. The motor will probably handle it, but be careful with semi auto spamming, DSG setups tend to have a nasty startup current. Pairing a Tienly 30k with a 12:1 ratio DSG gear set, SP140 spring (Guarder?) and a high performance 11.1V li-po with decent wiring should reach 60 RPS from my calculations. I don't use the HS5 formula, I rather use performance numbers from other setups and extrapolate from those numbers. It's usually quite accurate.

I doubt you'll reach 60 RPS with 16:1 ratio gears with a 30k motor unless you run it with a 4 cell li-po. The motor brushes won't like that though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Was hoping you'd chime in Lefse. I'll probably just go with a tienly 30k with 16:1's which will probably put me in the solid 50s. I've thought about using a 14.8v but I keep hearing about burnt off motor brushes like you mentioned, kinda turns me off of using that on my main gun. I guess it makes sense, higher stress builds aren't going to be too reliable either way. Since this is my primary, I'll settle for mid 50s rps if I can achieve that (pretty sure a tienly can give me >= 5 rps), piston weight should be ok for that. I'll have to start a "just for funzies gun" to go faster :D
I haven't teched that many different speed setups (maybe when I'm older and have more $ to spend) to go off of them for performance estimates, so researching this forum and asking more knowledgeable techs are my current best options haha.
 

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Sounds like a sensible approach. 50-55 RPS is still ridiculously high ROF, I'm going with more moderate ROF myself lately. Partly because I moved recently and the local airsoft scene is quite different from in my home county. I'm used to a more "speedsoftish" community, but where I live now it closer to milsim on the "airsoft scale". I'm just happy if I can still keep airsofting.

Best of luck with your project, I'm hoping to "get back in the saddle" myself soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Yes sir, will do. The road to 60 rps is gonna be long, right now I'm gonna settle for 50-something rps by slapping a tienly 30k in there. I'll post here when that motor gets in, and will revive the thread sometime later when I get the tools, parts, and the nerve together to hit that elusive 60 rps. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So I got an apache innovations tappetless cylinder head, probably will be a waste of money but should be interesting to try out. Supposedly this holds up to 75 rps while maintaining consistent fps. Here's what came:
Hood Sleeve Wood Grey Flooring

And here's the cylinder head disassembled:
Water Purple Wood Road surface Asphalt

So apache included 2 springs and 2 (neoprene??) pads of varying thickness for piston head shock absorption and AOE correction. They seem really thick, I feel like AOE might get thrown off as a result, but we'll see. The apach cylinder head works opposite the way a traditional tappet would work. Instead of pulling the tappet forward to bring the nozzle forward, the spring keeps the nozzle back in resting position and only goes forward when air is sent through.

The nozzle is adjustable and screws on and off the silver base. You're supposed to loctite it when you figure out optimal length but it's too loose to hold up to testing. I think I'll keep my upper off and manually press my hopup unit against the gearbox and eyeball/feel for optimal length.

Kind of hard to see here, but the thicker pad is a hair thinner than 2 stacked quarters, and the other pad is a little taller than 1 quarter.
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When I pull the nozzle forward and release it, it's kinda slow going back, picture the handle on a wind up toy spinning after you let it go, that sorta speed. 75rps? Let's just say I'm very skeptical, but I'll get to installation later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Also I've noticed some interesting wear on my rocket 8-tooth DSG sector gear and my SHS 15 tooth piston. The enlarged pickup tooth bottom is worn as are the sides of my gear (spots with no teeth). I looked and the pickup tooth sticks out. I'm thinking of dremeling it.
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Definitely interested in the Apache cylinder head. Was thinking of getting one for my first DSG build, but wasn't sure how reliable it was gonna be and didn't want to drop that kind of money on a new product.

I have most of the parts for a DSG (including a Seigetech gearset), but am worried about tappet timing and whatnot. The tappetless cylinder head could be an easy solution.
 

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What gearbox shell are you using? Have seen that rubbing before, possible QC issue with the sector but more likely slightly out of spec piston rails in the gearbox - G&G shells in particular like to do this with the SHS 14t so I usually stick something else in them. Lonex time, drill baby drill :sneaky:
 

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You could use Teflon tape on the threads for the testing phase to give it enough stiffness.

I’m a little skeptical of the feeding vs. air seal on these because of how high it looks like it seats the BB. The nozzle is adjustable, but a longer nozzle also pushes the BB farther in…

Obviously you can modify it, but it sounds like a pain.
 

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I'm worried a proper midcap will slow the 'nozzle' enough to cause something to happen. Idk what exactly, but I'm interested. Considered one for my TSG but didn't pull the trigger since it had to many unknowns
 

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They do include the longer spring to (hopefully) provide more back pressure.

I’m also interested if you’ll get PME faster with this head, since it’s providing some back pressure on the piston, or if the main spring’s power makes the back pressure so small as to be irrelevant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Imma make a new thread devoted to the tappetless cylinder head...
Here it is:
 
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