Should hpa be banned from airsoft?

Discussion in 'General Airsoft Discussion' started by JC32Z, Jun 20, 2015.

  1. JC32Z

    JC32Z New Member

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    Some fields around the country have banned hpa or put heavy restrictions and it has given a bad name to hpa I personally think it is the person behind the gun but how do you guys feel
     
  2. Mafiapenguin

    Mafiapenguin New Member

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    I run an HPA DMR, and people at my field (Gamepod Combat Zone) are ok with it. However the owner recently implemented a rule basically screwing high RPS builds using HPA. So now almost everyone has DSG builds. I've tried telling him the HPA system isn't at fault and there are ways of making sure people are responsible with their systems, but he won't hear it :c
     

  3. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    Here's my idea of what to do about HPA systems: Mechanical only.

    The PDiK Mancraft is the absolute best HPA engine and it should be the only one in allowed, because it's semi-auto only.
     
  4. OgreChrist

    OgreChrist Member

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    That wouldn't be fair to all the HPA owners of non-mechanical HPA systems who do truly play fair.

    Forcing HPA players to only be able to shoot semi-only would be just as unfair, and I wouldn't play at a place with those rules until AEGs get forced to shoot semi-only to.
     
  5. Rushin

    Rushin Well-Known Member

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    HPA for rifles is just like owning a nice, non-flaky GBB. What they do need to do is have refs take the gun, and WITH THEIR OWN TWO HANDS put a tournament lock on both the FPS and RPS controls. They can regulate AEGs as well but it would be a little less painful since it's not very adjustable.
     
  6. Tortoise

    Tortoise Active Member

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    Better field management & observing > banning an entire system. I've noticed that the rule-breaking chumps who abuse their system and crank every setting to max often never get dealt with. I don't see it as fair that a certain group of people have to ruin it for everyone. Airsoft should be fair and fun for everyone on the field, not "I'm only coming today to shred some newbs who've never played before."
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
  7. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    I'd be ok with semi auto only.
     
  8. LegacyAirsoft

    LegacyAirsoft You can say I tech a little... Moderator

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    I consider "HPA" and "P*" different topics. Its like saying should AEGs be banned vs should Krytacs be banned. At least now that there are multiple companies producing different HPA products.

    Edit: I'll add my opinion to the list:

    Another rant, this one airsoft related.

    Ban HPA?

    In my opinion, if banning an entire system is your way of "fixing the problem", then you have a seriously flawed mentality of the situation and took very limited time to actually sort out a real fix for this.

    There are many ways to logically fix the problem of users abusing an item and still allow the honest users to continue using this item.

    1. Chrono by Joules with both the bb and barrel that the player will use on the field. FPS is just a function of energy, Joules are the actual energy output. With HPA guns there are three ways to increase the joules of the gun. Use heavier BBs, lengthen the barrel (also simply increasing barrel volume in P*) or adjust the regulator/FCU settings. In P* and V12 systems you can also swap nozzles. That's it. Regulate those 4 things while chronoing and you cannot possibly have people upping their FPS/Joules without breaking field chrono rules.

    2. Make tournament locks mandatory on air rigs/regulators and FCUs. This is common sense, any field owner that does not practice this is just dumb to be honest.

    3. Have an RPS limit for ALL setups. If you adhere by the above chrono rules for HPA guns and chrono AEGs by joules, no matter the rate of fire they will all have the same power. Even Joule creep AEGs don't increase too much; but if you are worried about those as well chrono them the exact same way you chrono the HPA guns. I have 3 AEGs that shoot faster than my SMP setup's max rof setting. Any system can get to high rof, regulate them all so that, in the end, the energy output has the same cap.

    4. Actually enforce these rules in staging, during the chrono and while the game is going on. Strictly adhere to HPA users not being able to swap in a longer barrel or heavier bbs. Make sure they all have tourney locks on their FCU and regulator. Having the rules is one thing, enforcing them weeds out the cheaters and creates a harmless environment.

    5. Have referees with hand-held chronos. Xcortechs are great. If somebody is suspected of cheating with an HPA system (or any system) spot check them. If they are above the joule limit or RPS limit that means they had to have changed their BBs, barrel or system after chrono and are breaking rules.

    6. Kick these cheaters out, repeat offenders should be banned. Just like with any other situation violating the rules.

    7. EDUCATE HPA users as part of the standard safety briefing BEFORE all games. (Point brought up by Star_Folder) Make sure they know what their system is capable of and that changing something as little as BB weight or barrel length can affect the Joule output and be against the rules. This way, ignorance to your system is not an excuse for both cheating and simply using heavier bbs your buddy gave you after you chrono because he said they would fly farther. This way, nobody using an HPA system "doesn't know" what the restrictions around his system are and how he/she can break them.

    If you have these rules set in place the people not breaking them will be harm free, as they will never chrono above the joule limit when being spot checked. This will result in the overall name of HPA not being slandered as well as a harmless environment and fun day of airsoft all around.

    Because, FPS cheating happens with AEGs that are overvolumed as well. Or systema systems with their cylinders. Sadly, there have always been and will always be cheaters. The refs who spot check you will compare to how you chronoed initially. If they take your own mag with your own bbs you have been using and chrono it above joule limits, then you will be labeled a cheater and kicked out of the field since you mist have changed something from when you initially chronoed, solving the problem. Think about it, if you follow the above rules I laid out, you wouldn't even be allowed on the field unless you chronoed within the limits initially and with the system you were going to run. If you are all of a sudden spot checked at above the Joule limit, you MUST have changed something in your setup. This is the whole point of having any of these rules in the first place, to catch the cheaters.

    There, problem solved. Sorry that it took 15 minutes of both thinking and writing to properly solve an apparent issue while not hurting the majority for the ignorance of the minority.

    Follow these rules and you will have games where it is IMPOSSIBLE for HPA users to be shooting at a higher energy output or higher RPS unless they went against the rules, that they were aware of, and deliberately changed their own system after chrono. This proof allows you to ban the cheaters and keep the honest players, which will eventually get rid of the problem.

    You're welcome.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  9. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    That's why I think PDIK mancraft and Daytona guns are ok, but not P*, V12s, and SMPs. Because the mechanical ones have a lower maximum rate of fire.
     
  10. LegacyAirsoft

    LegacyAirsoft You can say I tech a little... Moderator

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    The issue I have with that is that I build AEGs that have over 60rps...so why do people harp on 60rps P* and not DSG builds, for example?

    High rof isn't something only P*s can do.
     
  11. Mafiapenguin

    Mafiapenguin New Member

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    I feel like you didn't read through what LegacyAirsoft wrote, the systems are no longer a problem when the proper rules are enforced, therefore there's absolutely no need to ban anything...
     
  12. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    You all fail to remember the people who find ways around field rules. The people who adjust their settings behind the staff's backs. I have lost trust in people to follow the rules. Therefore, I believe that the equipment they used should be designed so that it's capability of being used improperly is reduced or eliminated.
     
  13. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    Yeah, but it's far more difficult for an AEG to have such a rate of fire. A polar star need only be set to 60rps. A DSG must be built and carefully tunned, which few people care to do (me included).
     
  14. LegacyAirsoft

    LegacyAirsoft You can say I tech a little... Moderator

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    Read what I edited into my above post, these rules are not only to stop some cheating but catch the people who do still cheat.

    Everybody cheats, P* or not. Its just that its easier to cheat with P* and get away with it because fields don't implement the above rules and enforce them with the knowledge of how HPA differs from AEGs. Follow the above rules allows you to CATCH the cheaters and ban them, solving the problem and not resorting to bannig all HPA.

    Plus, the PDiK and SDiK kits can change their FPS the exact same way as an SMP for example, so the main part of cheating isnt any different in these systems.
     
  15. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    It's really just the rof that I've had problems with
     
  16. Dannyboyextreme

    Dannyboyextreme Active Member

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    Rof is an issue yes, but when your are breaking skin and bleeding from across the field, we have a problem.
     
  17. Mafiapenguin

    Mafiapenguin New Member

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    I'd be a lot more worried about high FPS builds than high RPS builds. I'd much rather be peppered by a gun shooting 250 fps going 60rps than shot once from an 800fps build.
     
  18. misterT

    misterT Member

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    Banning particular systems because they CAN be abused is a Fascist philosophy. Much like some members of our government who wish to take away constitutional rights or ban butter pop corn in theaters etc. if the field owners will not enforce rules to stop certain individuals from turning up the velocity to dangerous levels. There are other ways, many years ago playing paintball we taught one of these individuals a lesson. We surrounded him and peppered him unmercifully. Along with a warning that if he cranked his up again it would bemuch worse next time and EVERY time we saw him on a field. He got the message!
     
  19. Noah_6

    Noah_6 Active Member

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    Ah... So if the staff does nothing, the players will... That's something I'd love to see more of