Sig Sauer proforce p320 m17

Discussion in 'Clothing / Gear' started by Pinball, Dec 4, 2021.

  1. Pinball

    Pinball New Member

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    Swanton
    So I'm new to airsoft (use to play paintball years ago and loved it) and getting gear slowly in preparation to play. I've taken a liking to the GBB pistol in my heading and was curious if anyone has had any experience with one? Also, since this is a replica of that actual firearm, will this fit in a standard kydex drop leg holster? I've been looking around for a holster, but all that keeps coming up are holsters for the real firearm. Any and all comments are appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    I have the M18, which is essentially the same gun w/ a slightly shorter barrel, and a different base on the mags... Nice gun shoots and handles like the real one... I haven't gone holster shopping yet as I'm still looking at ways to do CCW in a wheelchair, but everything I've seen says that any good replica gun will fit any real gun accessories that would fit the corresponding real gun - so I would be very surprised if an M17 holster didn't fit your replica. I'd especially expect this to be the case for SIG since they are the ones that manufacture the replicas, not just a random company copying them... (However it is generally not a good idea to try to cheap out by using airsoft accessories on real guns since they are generally more cheaply made and not designed to handle the recoil forces etc. of a real gun)

    ex-Gooserider
     
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  3. OPairoft

    OPairoft Active Member

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    Sig doesn’t make any of their airsoft guns.

    The MCX/MPX and M17/M18 are made by vfc.

    They are doing literally the same thing as Umarex/Elite Force, slapping their name on something along with a wall of text and saying “oh look, officially licensed, much wow”.
     
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  4. Graybeard

    Graybeard Active Member

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    Silver Spring
    I have 3 Glock platformed pistols, and use Blackhawk holsters. 2 of the 3 fit the corresponding real steal holster. The 3rd did not fit. I also have a KWA USP that fits the real steal holster. It’s hit or mis with the replicas they are not always 1:1. Hopefully someone who has experience with the Sig M17/M18 will chime in with what fits. But I would do the search/research for compatibility before purchase, or at least purchase from a place that has easy returns.
     
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  5. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

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    Ocean Springs
    Just go find a cheap holster on Amazon. It will work the same. Personally, I like my pistol on my plate carrier (I know I am weird but the draw just feels right to me). Keeps everything compact so I can run. But everyone has their own opinion. Currently, I am using a matrix holster. I am aware that it is Evike crap, but at the end of the day, it is a holster. As long as the pistol stays on you and doesn't flyout midrun, you will be fine for airsoft.

    As for the pistol, I agree with OPAirsoft. It is an ok performing gun. Nothing special except for the trademarks. I would rather go for something different that will last a long time without inhibiting performance, which will slowly decrease with that pistol.

    Go private message with GugesMk3 on this forum. He can help you out with GBB pistol shopping and what you should be looking for in a pistol.
     
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  6. Pinball

    Pinball New Member

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    Swanton
    Thanks everyone. Lots to learn and I'm definitely anxious to dive deeper into the sport!
     
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  7. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if Sig contracted out some or all of the parts building. But I remember seeing a discussion on one of the airsoft product review sites to the effect that Sig USED to license their designs to one of the airsoft manufacturers, but weren't happy with the resulting products. According to the article, they ended the license agreement and brought the manufacturing in to their production facilities.

    This doesn't seem unreasonable for most of the gun since there isn't anything there that is outside of what Sig is already making for their real guns - Once you start molding a polymer grip frame, it is trivial to make a modified mold for the replica. The trigger module looks much the same, and again could be made the same way as the real one. The only parts I see that wouldn't totally be within the ability of the tooling for the real guns are possibly the magazine and the barrel...

    OTOH, there is a fine print line on the underside of the trigger guard that says "Made in Taiwan" but I don't think any of the real guns are made there.

    At any rate, I have only two real gripes with the gun...
    1. Is that according to Sig tech support, it isn't possible to swap which side the mag release button is on the way it can be done on the real guns. As a lefty this is annoying as it means I can't do rapid reload drills. (Everything else is ambidextrous)
    2. According to the manual, the mags are supposed to have a latch to hold the follower down while reloading. They don't, and according to Sig tech support this is apparently a glitch in the manual, and I have the right mags. However I got this really neat tool from Ruger :p in the swag bag from the Disability Shooting Summit. It is supposedly for opening beverage containers, but I find it is perfect for holding the follower down...:cool:

    ex-Gooseerider
     
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  8. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

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    This may be true, but Sig is a firearms company, not an airsoft company. They may have cancled the license with another company and decided to make externals in house (which I do not think is the case, I think they just started going through VFC), but the internals are 100% VFC. And that is the part that is bad. VFC can make some good stuff but they have a lot more failures than victory's unfortunately.
     
  9. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    You could well be right - I don't know... So far I haven't had any issues, but I've only shot a bit over 2,000 BB's through it... (I'm on my 3rd bag of BB's and my second can of gas...) This is sitting in my home office at about 10-12' range at my home brew target setup...

    ex-Gooserider
     
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  10. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

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    Ocean Springs
    I am not saying that it is going to happen to all VFC guns, but the odds are very high. It really is unfortunate, as (most) their externals they pump out are just so amazing. They just cannot seem to get their internals right though.
     
  11. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    Interesting... If it does fail, are there any alternative internal bits that would be available for this gun, or would fixing it even be an option?
    ex-Gooserider
     
  12. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

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    Ocean Springs
    I have to admit, I am not an expert when it comes to GBBP, I just know the basic concept of how most work. I own a high capa, which are practically made to be built up from stock. This being said, I can imagine the gaskets will go before anything else. Do you use green gas? Cause stop if you are. There is a little industry secret which GugesMk3 has long since been trying to warn the community about: Green Gas is just regular propane with a fragrance and silicone oils mixed in. They believe that it is supposed to save you time lubricating your internals; problem is, and Guges has proven, it lubricates the wrong internals. You don't want your hopup packing getting greasy, do you? Switch to propane. A bottle of Coleman's can be had for just a few bucks from your local hardware store and will last way longer than a bottle of green gas. Just make sure you make the one time purchase an adapter. MAPP gas is another one, Guges knows more about that one.

    If you want technical data on GBB, unfortunately, I am not your guy. Guges can break it down better than I can.

    As for further info on the m17, I have never been inside one. What I can tell you is only what a very reputable tech has told me. Really, it makes less power than it theoretically should. This I can only imagine is due to horrible spec issues and QC on the internals.
     
  13. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    SIG makes no Airsoft guns internally. Everything is contracted out and made in Taiwan.

    SIG used to be licensed as part of the Swiss Arms umbrella. This was held by Cybergun, however CYB denigrated every brand they held by slapping "factory names" on every cheap piece of junk Airsoft gun made in Asia.

    So, SIG started their own "Airgun" division with 4.5mm and 6mm Airsoft headed by Joe Huston a former Palco/SoftAir/Cybergun USA CEO as the head of their new division. Joe even took Matt H. from Palco to lead their sales team. Sadly, these two really knew "nothing" about Airsoft and 4.5mm and were "discharged" from SIG USA after about 4 years. They bamboozled SIG USA into thinking they knew something about Airsoft...

    So with that...do not buy Green Gas for Airsoft guns and being that this model is controlled by SIG Arms...there will be no upgrade parts available in the USA for them. In Asia...there are people making items for this line...but they are not interested in sending them to the USA and cause a kerfuffle with SA.
     
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  14. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    Thanks for the more detailed history. I guess what I saw on the other site was reflecting the first part of Sig taking back the license, but not the part about them contracting it out again...

    What is your concern about Green Gas guns? I'll admit I didn't know much about Airsoft beyond that it existed when I bought my M18 as a low cost, (from the Sig Sauer Academy Pro Shop) lower legal hassle way to train for IDPA and similar firearm competition. I've been doing a lot of reading different blogs and websites since and from what I've seen on those is that GBB is the best imitation of a real gun for 'feel'; and that while a C02 gun will give a higher pellet speed and hit harder, green gas was better in terms of cost, and not having as many issues with leakage of partly used cartridges and running out in the middle of a mag... Is it just that one manufacturer or is there a bigger problem with them.

    I will say that while shooting at my 10-12' range target box, I don't have any problem punching holes in my paper targets, knocking over my metal silhouettes, or swinging the rubber dangly targets, so I haven't felt a lack of power. My accuracy is less than I'd like, but while I'm not sure if it is me or the gun, I'm more inclined to think it's mostly me...

    ex-Gooserider
     
  15. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Gas Airsoft is designed around the 115psi gas pressure.

    CO2 is 800psi. See how this may be a very short sighted and a bad idea?

    CO2 is exponentially more abusive on Airsoft componentry. This is a fact and is an issue for all CO2 Airsoft guns. Plus, it's expensive and inconsistent.

    Here is a KJW running on CO2. Consistency drops by 20% from shot one to last shot. How is that good in any way?

     
  16. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    That agrees with what I've seen elsewhere, that CO2 is not a great choice... I didn't choose it when buying my first gun because of my concern about the cost of the cartridges. I'm now even more glad that I didn't choose it.

    But just above, you said:
    Which is why I was asking why you disliked Green Gas?

    ex-Gooserider
     
  17. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Sadly, nothing in Airsoft is made to a standard.

    And GG is bottled on a whim. It's impure and full of contaminates. Sometimes it carries residual material from the lines previous run.

    We have found, heavy oil, water and particulates in GG.
     
  18. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    Any brands better than others about that? I'm currently using Umarex Elite Force in an 8 oz. can...

    What I'm finding confusing is that there seems to be no consistent pattern about sizes and labeling - Some cans are labeled in oz or gram weight, and some in cc or ml liquid volume, and some in both, but they aren't consistent in the relation between weight and volume :confused: Mostly I've been trying to figure out how to compare the different online offerings to see which gives the 'most bangs for the buck'... I've tried making a spreadsheet to calculate comparisons, and depending on the can that I start with I get different sets of numbers...

    I've also seen the adapters to use the propane canisters from the hardware store, but I believe those have 'odorant' added for safety, which doesn't sound like a good idea in a gun used indoors...

    ex-Gooserider
     
  19. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Three things that you must practice in your mind when you are dealing with Airsoft.

    In Airsoft, American Consumerism does not apply, there are no standards and details matter.

    Most of the brands with the crimped cans is made in TN, under various brands.

    None of the GG gives you the most bang for the buck. You can buy one can of GG for 12.00 or 2 bottles of propane for 7.00....there is an obvious savings there.

    Odorant is not an issue...you are releasing propane in an enclosed space anyways with GG or dry propane. The torch/welding canisters have less odor over fuel canisters.

    The adapters for Airsoft use is not commonly sold in the hardware store. Most of those adapters are propane transfers from large tanks to small bottles.

    upload_2021-12-8_8-12-38.png

    The Airsoft adapter is is very different.

    upload_2021-12-8_8-13-27.png
     
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  20. ex-Gooserider

    ex-Gooserider New Member

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    Interesting, I seem to see two main styles of GG cans, the steel ones with the crimped on bottoms like rattle-can paint or household aerosol products and a bigger seamless (aluminum?) canister (most notably Puff Dino brand) and I'd been trying to figure out which was a better deal.

    I had seen the airsoft adapters online, but I'd been staying away from them because I didn't want to stink up my office... I don't see the actual propane as a big concern since it isn't very much, but the odorant can be NASTY stuff. If you say that it isn't an issue, I may take a closer look at the adapters when I start getting closer to needing more gas...

    Thanks again for all the useful information!
    ART