Socom Gear 10.5'' Noveski ROF upgrade.

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Navyhodge, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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    Alright, before I get started I just wanted to throw out there that I DID research and use the search bar to answer some of my questions about what exactly i'm going to need for this upgrade. With that being said, I still need assistance. There is a lot of highly trained techs here who use a lot of AIRTECH LINGO that I'm unfamiliar with, so please keep it simple..I beg of you. I am familiar with the inside of a Gearbox, how it functions, etc, etc. I can find parts on my own, I just need the names to search for.

    First things first. I'm planning to upgrade my SOCOM GEAR (VFC) NOVESKI. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm told that Socom gear uses all VFC internals, or that SOCOM gear is just a satellite distributor off of VFC. So I should be off to a good start hypothetically speaking? I do understand there are many things that need to be upgraded.

    It currently shoots at 380-386 FPS with .20's (used .20s to chronograph at the field for regulation, but then swapped in .25's)
    I use a 9.6 Volt 1500 MAH crane stock battery, But i do own a 11.1v Lipo and will refuse to use it until I upgrade.

    I WOULD LOVE to be shooting at 25-30 RPS while keeping my consistent FPS.


    So as of right now I've planned to Upgrade the following: (the list is short..)

    -Lonex Red, or orange motor (if you could choose?)
    -Upgrade to deans
    -Microfet (im going to purchase one from the guy that sells them on classified, so tell me if that's a good choice)
    -possibly Lonex 16-1 Gears, or whatever is suggested
    -Upgrade to LIPO 11.1v once all finished

    -Also include correcting AOE once I become more familiar with it.

    That is all I have right now.. I'm going to keep searching threads for ideas, but ANY information you guys provide is greatly appreciated! This Forum always pulls through for me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  2. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I have a similar setup in my AUG, with a Lonex A2 pulling an M120 spring on 16:1 ratio gears at 32 rps with a high discharge 11,1v li-po. With an A1 it would probably do 35ish, so well above your ROF goal. Either motor will get the job done extremely well. If you wanna stay in the high 20's, I suggest combining a Lonex A2 with standard ratio gears. It will draw so little current that you barely need a mosfet, but I recommend installing a mosfet unit anyway. Keeping your consistent FPS is easily achieved by doing the usual compression mods and using high quality compression parts.

    It looks like you have a pretty good plan for this build and have done your homework, unlike many others. :)
     

  3. alex

    alex New Member

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    re-wire with 16awg. i use pvc coated wires because it's thinner. since this is for outdoors, take advantage of rhopping it. it replaces the bucking speed bump in the hopup with a better contact patch, resulting in less energy loss and extended range.
     
  4. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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    I would be happy shooting in the 30's, I just didn't think it was an accurate number to go off of from the start. So, you still suggest to stick to the Standard ratio gears then with the A2?

    Will a high ROF like this cause any unwanted stress on my Gearbox that im not aware of?
     
  5. alex

    alex New Member

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    radius the gearbox (round off the cylinder window corners) and use sorbo. this should protect your gearbox front end from the constant jack hammering. i prefer to use a speed motor because it has a slower startup than torque motors. i try to make reliable builds that can handle abuse without sacrificing too much performance.

    also, standard ratio is fine for ~30rps.
     
  6. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    You actually prefer slower trigger response and low efficiency?
     
  7. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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    Roger that. Ok, stupid question: I'm at work right now just browsing motors, and I don't know what length motor my gun takes. Is there a specific length for each gun( i.e. short, etc, etc), or just the normal? I suppose the smart thing to do would be to open up and look, but I wont be home till tomorrow.
     
  8. alex

    alex New Member

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    you're taking it out of context. i put reliability above extreme performance. i would rather have a high performance DMR with reasonable trigger response that would be reliable during a weekend Op than a high performance DMR with superb trigger response breaking down during a game.

    trigger response on a 32:1 with 11.1v 25c 1800mAH and matrix motor is still faster than a stock AEG. i still use a non-metal half teeth on that build without any wear.

    let's put it this way...
    i used to build race motorcycle race engines. there are two types of builds, sprint and endurance. i can build a sprint engine that will last a few races. put that engine through an endurance race and it will fail.

    same with AEG's. you can build one with top end performance and parts, but it's reliability will suffer.

    forgot to mention, speed motors work fine with < 400fps standard ratios. no efficiency loss. using speed ratios with that same fps will start increasing the amp load on a speed motor. neodymiums FTW!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  9. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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  10. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I prefer to do high performance with good reliability. I usually over-engineer my builds so that they can actually endure the high performance over longer time periods. I'm not talking about extreme performance either, 30-40rps at 1-1.5J is considered a moderate build by today's standards. I build my AEG's to handle repeated mag dumps, even with high caps. If I want a gun to do 35rps with a power output of 1.5J with near instantaneous trigger response, I will choose parts and tune it to achieve that reliably. Yes, I do aim for reliability too when I build my guns.

    I guess maybe I have a more aggressive approach to teching than you have. That's probably because the game style is pretty aggressive at our local field.

    About the gears, Matrix is generally considered crap. You can take your chances on either SHS 13:1's or try and find an alternative, ZCI looks promising. If you have the money, you can consider Siegetek 14:1's. And your gun uses a long type motor.
     
  11. alex

    alex New Member

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    Georgia summers are brutal to AEG's... metal expansion is a concern and heat buildup is common. LiPo's puff up if left in a car with the windows closed. leaving a black AEG sitting in the sun also puff's up LiPo's. can't really hold it without gloves.

    i'm not sure how the summers are in Norway. i guess you can test your builds by putting it in the oven at 105degrees for 30minutes then do a mag dump. do that for around 5k rounds and see how it holds up.
     
  12. alex

    alex New Member

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    are you going for ~30 or ~35+ rps?
    stock gear ratio is around ~30 rps. what battery are you going to use?

    with 13:1, you will need a good torque motor with a strong pinion gear. i normally use chromoly pinions for 400/35+ builds.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  13. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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    Hmmmmmm... about Siegtek... I've been reading that you should be a experienced Tech to install them and get them running right, which isnt me. ZCI doesnt have the gears i want in stock. Tough tough.
     
  14. alex

    alex New Member

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    that goes for any gearsets. i don't think any other manufacturer can match the quality of a Siegtek gearset. if you can afford, go siegtek.

    i'm currently testing a set of matrix 13:1. only has less than 25k rnds (~350fps/32rps)
     
  15. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I guess the Norwegian climate gives me a technical advantage, the temperature rarely goes above 30*C in the summer, and most of the year it can get quite chilly. But temperatures like you describe is just another reason why you should use high torque motors and not high speed motors, they run a lot cooler and draw less amps.
     
  16. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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    Well now I'm going for right around 30-31-32 etc rps. When Its all said and done I'll be using my 11.1v lipo. Lets be honest Alex, if you had to suggest to me a Gear set and motor for 30-33 rps at 380fps what would it be? And a pinions suggestion would be nice also. I know it sounds like I'm throwing alot around, but im having trouble finding parts, and grouping them together on the same site to save shipping costs.

    Nortech, I'm taking your advice also. So don't think I don't appreciate your advice or anything. Im just trying to get a feel for what people think.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  17. alex

    alex New Member

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    i'm a budget builder and cater to those that can't afford the quality parts money can buy. therefore, you need to post a budget. i prefer to use JG gears because i can buy a decently used enhanced JG m4 for the price of a siegtek gearset.

    all my siegtek gears are used and well worth the price. Nortech's build uses quality parts that are out of reach from the average airsofter.

    this is what i currently build for 380/30-33:

    JG gearset
    dream army m130 short-stroked down to 385-390
    dream army or shs 15 teeth (short-stroked and swiss cheesed)
    guarder piston head (home depot #14 heat stretched)
    matrix 3000 speed motor (i picked up many used)
    pinion on the matrix works fine but sometimes replace with systema chromoly if using a matrix torque motor (used).
    60d sorbo
    16awg pvc coated wires
    3034 home-brewed mosfet
    deepfire nozzle
    metal spring guide with bearings
    bearings on the bevel gear
    bushings on the rest
    11.1v 25c 1800mAH (deans)

    i usually pre-build these gearboxes and set them aside.

    other motors i use:
    element speed or torque (whatever is available at the time)
    shs, 5ku and xhightech

    madbull blue bucking rhopped and the regular stability/sealing/polishing mods

    with a higher budget, siegtek and lonex parts...
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  18. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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    Well, between the Motors and gears I don't want to go over $125, which i think is reasonable.
     
  19. alex

    alex New Member

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    stock gears will work fine. i recommend a lonex balance or speed motor.
     
  20. Navyhodge

    Navyhodge New Member

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    Norfolk
    Roger that. I really appreciate your help. After watching some of your videos, i'm under the impression that you could start your own airsoft gun brand ha ha. Can I just pick up 16awg pvc coated wires at any Hardware store, or is that an online item?
    Whats the purpose of 8mm Ball bearing Bushings, over regular bushings?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012