(SOLD) WE M14 GBB Rifle w. Sage Intern'l Ltd EBR Stock and original WE Stock, etc.

Discussion in 'Guns for Sale' started by Gunner1979, Dec 19, 2019.

  1. Gunner1979

    Gunner1979 Active Member

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    Works perfectly and I won't sell ANYTHING to ANYONE unless it's in full working condition (being basically new, it functions perfectly AND comes with the bolt coverplate being a steel RA-TECH one (this part, commonly known to fail, will not). Will have some extra parts as well, just need to look a and list list them. I believe the nozzle is the aftermarket 500fps one. Sure shoots like it;). The stock rifle is missing it's butt plate (I only used this gun with the Sage EBR stock, so it's not particularly relevant anyway). It's quite possible it will turn up).

    It's a hell of a deal, actually, particularly when one notes the $450 price tag on the Sage International EBR stock alone w/o the WE14 included! The GBB WE M14 is basically new w. little use (maybe 150 rounds down her throat.

    Price $400. Shipping on purchasing party
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  2. Gunner1979

    Gunner1979 Active Member

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    This rifle is really quite capable. Full auto at 100ft. Snap to shoulder and short burst. Photo explains the rest....
     

    Attached Files:


  3. Shadow1Delta

    Shadow1Delta Member

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    Don't suppose you have any interest in trades?
     
  4. Gunner1979

    Gunner1979 Active Member

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    None. Unfortunately. We are moving which is the sole reason why I'm selling off portions of my collection, which quite honestly just cannot be brought along with us.

    Cheers,

    G79
     
  5. Gunner1979

    Gunner1979 Active Member

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    Buyer flamed out. Up for sale once more. Serious only. $400. Shipping not included.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  6. Gunner1979

    Gunner1979 Active Member

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  7. Gunner1979

    Gunner1979 Active Member

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    Aotsukisho - sent info you requested!

    Cheers,

    Gunner79
     
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  8. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    Hi Gunner,

    Please check your PM box, I have sent you a few starting Feb 2 regarding missing/different parts on the gun as received and other information...

    Thanks
     
  9. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    I think it's about time I share what happened with the forum.

    [​IMG]
    This is the box as I received it

    [​IMG]
    Opening it up, foam was used from a different model to protect the M14

    [​IMG]
    Individual parts were wrapped up to protect them nicely

    [​IMG]
    I put it together to check to see if that was everything in the package, and it seemed to functionally dry fire.

    I immediately noticed the lack of M14 stock included, I did not mind since I had intended to use mainly the EBR chassis but it struck me as odd. I did further investigation and found that there was a strange mix of parts that did not match the listing photos.

    [​IMG]
    Notice how the outer barrel is EBR length rather than the longer M14 length, which is fine...however, the inner barrel included is too long even poking out of the large flash hider. If he was going to swap out for the EBR outer barrel why not include the EBR length inner barrel as well?

    [​IMG]
    Doing the full teardown I was not happy to find insect bodies in the rear of the receiver.

    I attempted to contact Gunner through PM multiple times.

    First PM was on February 2, he did not respond to me but he did make a post in another one of his sale threads. He also came back to post a wanted thread on February 7th but did not respond to me.
    https://www.airsoftsociety.com/posts/1812879/
    https://www.airsoftsociety.com/threads/lct-g3-hpa-preferred-for-purchase.160351/

    Second PM was on February 10, trying a week later. Still no reply and looking back Gunner had no visible activity then.

    Third PM was on February 17, trying another week later. Again, no reply but no visible activity.

    Fourth PM was on March 2 after I noticed the forum statistics showing that he was online. He posted twice and commented on someone's profile but did not respond through PM.
    https://www.airsoftsociety.com/profile-posts/6193/
    https://www.airsoftsociety.com/posts/1813983/
    https://www.airsoftsociety.com/posts/1813999/

    [​IMG]
    I took this screenshot on April 2, two months after I received the gun in the mail and sent my initial PM regarding it. As of that time, he was last seen on the forum on March 29 2020.

    In the meantime, I did another teardown of the replica and concluded that I have either been sent a different model than the one in the photos, or the condition was misrepresented.

    [​IMG]
    The infamous trigger box split is already happening, and responsible for a lot of my initial problems with the gun. Failing to lock back on empty, failing to fire when trigger is pulled, loose trigger assembly, magazine dumping gas when pulling the trigger.

    Reports from multiple sources (AS, HRC discord, ASF, redit - could realistically be one source parroted by multiple people) claim this split happens with 500-1000 shots. Gunner claims that this rifle has around 160 shots through it. Either this trigger assembly is a lemon, or there is a significantly higher round count through this gun.

    [​IMG]
    I also saw some grinding done around the trigger sear, this is likely to allow the hammer sear an easier interaction with sliding in. This seems like a good idea, until you realize that this was likely done because the hammer was misaligning with the trigger due to the split.

    This was also an undisclosed destructive modification, for what it's worth.

    [​IMG]
    Removing the op rod guide with a punch revealed that the included pin was extremely damaged and actually bent. This may be related to the next problem I noticed

    [​IMG]
    The pinned op rod guide wobbled quite a bit back and forth. On the real M14 this will lead to horrible accuracy issues, on the gas gun this is more of an inconvenience.

    Someone with multiple M14s answered me on HRC discord and said that while wiggle there is normal, it should not be that much.

    [​IMG]
    After putting it back together and running a chrono test, I see an average of around 360fps on propane with 0.25g which translates right around 400fps with 0.20g. This is not the 500fps nozzle, and if it is it is not sealing properly.
     
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  10. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    I finally got around to itemizing the list of parts from both the M14 and EBR chassis to see what was and wasn't included

    [​IMG]
    RED = MISSING
    M14-6 - Dust cover bearing
    M14-7 - Dust cover bearing screw
    M14-10 - Sling swivel screws (2x)
    M14-39 - Washer, sling swivel (2x)
    M14-40 - Stock liner
    M14-66 - M14 full length outer barrel
    M14-67 - Front band
    M14-78 - M14 stock
    M14-79 - Handguard
    M14-80 - Ferrule
    M14-90 - Handguard retaining clip
    M14-91 - Buttstock end plate
    M14-92 - Buttstock door
    M14-94 - Buttstock part
    M14-95 - Buttstock part
    M14-96 - Buttstock part
    M14-97 - Butt sling swivel
    M14-98 - Front sling swivel
    M14-100 - Buttstock part
    M14-101 - Dust cover
    M14-103 - Stock liner screw (2x)
    M14-111 - Buttstock detent spring
    M14-112 - Buttstock detent
    M14-113 - Buttstock pin (2x)
    M14-114 - Upper buttstock screw
    M14-115 - Lower buttstock screw
    M14-116 - Buttstock part
    M14-133 - Screw
    EBR-17 - Clip guide rail segment
    EBR-29 - EBR gas cylinder lock
    EBR-45 - Flash hider
    EBR-46 - Front sight
    EBR-47 - Front sight post screw
    EBR-48 - Sage EBR op rod guide
    EBR-51 (short) - EBR length inner barrel
    EBR-52 - Op rod guide pin
    EBR-53 - Op rod guide screws (2x)

    ORANGE = DAMAGE LIKELY NOT CAUSED BY WEAR AND TEAR
    M14-13 - Trigger (catch filed down likely to deal with trigger housing misalignment symptoms)
    M14-66/EBR-51 (short) - EBR short barrel (damage to op rod guide pin hole, causing excessive unwanted motion)
    M14-144 - Op rod guide pin (severe damage and slightly bent)

    YELLOW = OTHER DISCREPANCIES
    M14-1 - M14 receiver (normal wear and tear but several dead bugs found inside)
    M14-28 - Hammer housing (right) (known-issue deformation already occurring despite claim of only 160 rounds shot)
    M14-29 - Hammer housing (left) (known-issue deformation already occurring despite claim of only 160 rounds shot)
    M14-77 - Gas cylinder pin (not correct 2x8mm dimension, wrong pin likely used)
    *** - Bolt nozzle (365fps chrono'd with 0.25g bbs means ~400fps with 0.20g, stock nozzle)

    Most of these I do not actually care about as I will be running this exclusively in the EBR chassis, but it is still annoying considering it was promised (except the buttstock door).

    I believe that the receiver shown in the ads is not the one I received with a few points of evidence:

    1. Ad shows M14 length (longer) outer barrel with the front band (part M14-67) present. I received an EBR length (shorter) outer barrel, front band is not present.
    2. Ad shows M14 flash hider (one-piece assembly) painted orange. EBR flash hider is a two-piece assembly, allowing different flash hiders to be fitted while keeping the front sight. I received an unpainted M14 front sight - perhaps paint stripper was used, but why not show that in the ad? Shouldn't the orange tip be used while shipping replica firearms anyway?
    3. Damage to the op rod guide pin and where it contacts the outer barrel is not normal, it was either caused by hammering in the pin with the components misaligned or using a different (and defective) part.
    4. M14 length inner barrel is provided despite the EBR length outer barrel. It is 540mm long, about 20mm too long to even fit in the huge M14 flash hider with the EBR outer barrel. Having the outer barrel in the ad and the inner barrel actually ship, all signs point to you having the entire M14 barrel assembly so why was it swapped out?
    5. Dead bugs stuck in the grease in the rear of the receiver, an area requiring a complete teardown to clean, shows that this gun may have sat either outside or in storage for an extended period of time. There were also heavy dust and other organic buildup in certain hard-to-clean areas (inside the EBR stock and under the upper rail for example)
    6. Trigger box splitting is a known issue, although most people on multiple sources (Airsoft Society, HRC discord, Airsoft Sniper Forum, redit) claim 500-1000 shots before it happens. I understand the lack of control in regards to tolerance in this industry, but 160 claimed shots in a 'full working condition' rifle probably won't have those problems.
    7. There are wear marks indicating screws were used to secure the EBR op rod guide, which is different from the standard M14 one. The op rod guide was not included despite being necessary for the EBR chassis to function well - there is no left-right stabilization or bedding, and the op rod guide screw holes are not threaded to use set screws. I have severe barrel vibration and movement left/right while shooting because of this until I can get the part in.

    Best case scenario is that Gunner sent me the wrong M14 action mistakenly. Worst case scenario is that this was a misrepresented item, and I have not received the depicted item that I paid $400+ for. Responding to PMs would allow us to work out the issue regardless of reason, but this never happened. Note that at the time of this posting he was active on AS yesterday, 4/16.

    Due to the fact that this happened and the zero post-sale communication despite visible forum activity means that I do not think Gunner is willing to rectify this situation and as such I would not recommend anyone buy from him in the future. For those of you looking at his other listings, be wary.
     
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  11. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

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    @Gunner79 seeing as how you're active again, I would appreciate a response.