Some questions about AK high speed build

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Multichamp, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Multichamp

    Multichamp New Member

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    Chicago
    Hello, I am working on my new gun, which is an Echo1 akm (ak74) and am having some worries about the new parts I will be putting in. Here is what I am running:

    -Mosfet with 11.1 2200mah lipo
    -Tightbore
    -CNC hop up/soft bucking
    -Stock cylinder/cylinder head (compression mods with plumbers tape)
    -Stock spring (m120 I believe)
    -Stock anti-reversal latch
    -New air nozzle with o-ring

    New parts:
    -SHS piston head
    -Super core piston (adjusted AOE with sorbo pad, shaved off necessary teeth on piston)
    -Lonex tappet plate/trigger contacts
    -Lonex A2 motor
    -SHS 13:1 gears

    First question, the pinion shaft/gear on the new lonex a2 motor is shorter than the stock echo 1 motor, which is leaving me questioning my motor height, as I have the lonex motor at full height and Id like to raise it up a bit more but cant. Anyone run into these issues with a short type motor? Is taking the shaft/pinion gear off the echo 1 motor and putting it on the lonex possible?

    When running 13:1 gears with the AOE adjusted, do you think I will have to short stroke the piston or shave teeth of the selector gear due to the speed of the setup?

    When putting in these new parts, is there anything else I should change/be aware of with running a higher speed setup?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  2. Hangtight

    Hangtight Member

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    The A2 is I believe a 16TPA motor, which on 11.1v and 13:1 gears is likely to hit over 30rps. At those speeds with the stock spring it is possible you will hit pre engagement issues. There are a number of ways you can encourage the piston to complete its stroke quickly enough to ensure this doesn't happen, all of which have been covered elsewhere.
    NB You sort stroke a piston by removing teeth from the pickup side of the sector gear. You will also need to ensure that your barrel is now the correct length for the reduced air volume you have available.
    While it is possible to swap pinions with the correct tools, it shouldn't be necessary. When installing your gears, the motor height should be set to the bevel gear and the bevel shimmed to the correct clearance to the motor pinion. If you've run out of motor height adjustment that would indicate that something is incorrectly installed.
    I'd strongly suggest that you need to do some more research on putting together a high speed build. If you try to just put these parts together without really understanding the potential issues, then the chances are you're going to end up with quite a lot of broken components.
     

  3. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member

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    Was your stock motor extremely magnetic? Lonex motors are a downgrade btw.

    Hangtight, I'm pretty sure it's the A1 that's 16tpa, don't quote me on that though.
     
  4. Multichamp

    Multichamp New Member

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    A lonex a2 motor is a downgrade from the stock echo1? I have never heard that. Also, I want a high torque motor with 13:1 gears.

    Hangtight, the reason I am asking these questions is to ensure I get everything right before I put my new parts into the gearbox, so things dont break. I have done much research. Also, I was not asking how to prevent pre-engagement, I was merely asking if it would be a wise choice with my specific setup. This is a forum for gun modification, and a worthy post.

    Ill take another look at the motor height to ensure its correct, and upgrade my spring.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  5. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member

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    Lonex makes very poor motors. Whereas most of the E1'S I've worked on or owned came with good high torque motors. Hence my question about how magnetic your stock motor was.
     
  6. Multichamp

    Multichamp New Member

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    Chicago
    That's interesting to hear because most of the research I have done has led me to believe the lonex a2 is one of the best high torque motors. The stock e1 motor is quite magnetic
     
  7. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member

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    Lonex motors have weak brush springs, weak magnetism, and tend to have uneven (warped? Not sure what word to use) shafts. All of that combined results in frequent excessive premature brush wear. Not to mention they're less torque-y and more power-hungry than the E1 blue motors (and most other aftermarket high torque motors).
    I assume the E1 motor has a blue endbell?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  8. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member

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    This is a screenshot of a comment from the owner of Kingdom of Airsoft, who makes custom motors, and explains it better than me:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Hangtight

    Hangtight Member

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    The A1 is 14TPA, and the A2 16TPA (or possibly 15TPA depending where you look) . Certainly my A1 is quicker than an SHS HT.
    It also suffers from a pinion that doesn't get on with other gears, magnets that are OK rather than good, not great quality manufacture and some manufacturing cost cutting design decisions. The stock brushes have skinny little braids and are quite soft. Standard JG brush springs are visibly made of heavier spring wire.
    And it's over priced. An SHS HT is actually a better motor for less money IMO. For the same money there are a number of much better choices eg. ASG Ultimate.
     
  10. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member

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    ^^^yup. Either save money and get a $30 (ZCI, SHS) motor that'll perform better than the lonex, or get a $50 motor (ASG) that'll perform better than Lonex, ZCI, or SHS. My advice? SHS high torque if you're just aiming for rof. Or an ASG 16tpa motor (if you're not on a budget and want a schuae motor).
     
  11. Hangtight

    Hangtight Member

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    ASG CNC 30K is the smoothest, coolest running motor I have. My favourite after that is a G&P M120 with good neodymium magnets installed. The ring terminals make the best, neatest and most reliable motor connections. I'm trying to figure out how to adapt all my motors to that setup.
     
  12. Multichamp

    Multichamp New Member

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    Chicago
    Thanks for the great info. I'm gonna return my lonex and get an ASG motor instead.
     
  13. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member

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    Just as a bonus... You might want to check out BrillArmory.com . Excellent customer service, only stocks quality parts (including ASG motors), very inexpensive shipping, and lower prices than Evike,ASGI, or most of the other major airsoft sites.

    And good luck with your build
     
  14. QCDiscus

    QCDiscus New Member

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    Quad Cities
    Ak47

    LOL sound like me.
    My build has gone thru 3 pistons !
    Completely explodes them .

    similar build to yours .
    Tienly GT-40000 motor
    10:1 gears
    Lightweight piston and head.
    11.1 3000Mh 40C

    Still got pre-engagement.
     
  15. -Spitfire-

    -Spitfire- Well-Known Member

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    What spring? I'm assuming you swiss cheesed?
     
  16. Multichamp

    Multichamp New Member

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    Chicago
    Thanks, I do use brill for almost everything
     
  17. Hangtight

    Hangtight Member

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    That's because at a guess that setup may well be capable of trying to do 55+ rps.

    But try is all it'll ever do. Get a 28TPA motor and a DSG plus an M160, or all you'll ever do is trash more pistons.
     
  18. Lefse

    Lefse Active Member Supporting Member

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    No wonder, when you go beyond 40 rps with an SSG the laws of physics become extremely annoying.
     
  19. QCDiscus

    QCDiscus New Member

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    Quad Cities
    Ak47

    Yes physics sucks . LOL
    I think the biggest spring I have tested was a 120.
    I can get about 1/2 a mag before detonation.
    But balancing a field usable gun (400 FPS ) and a high speed setup is a chore .
    Lucky this is a shits and giggles build. As our field has a 30RPS rule ( Thanks HPA )
     
  20. Lefse

    Lefse Active Member Supporting Member

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    I did build a 51rps SSG setup once, I used an M130 spring, an SHS 15T piston that was pretty much transparent from swiss cheesing, short stroked 3 teeth and ran a combination of 13:1 ratio gears and an SHS high speed motor. It broke several ARL springs, split one sector gear from PME (accidentally set the hop-up to max), before the brush leads burnt off from the extreme current. It was a fun build, sounded absolutely insane and felt like it was gonna explode any second. :D