strong piston strong bearing help

Discussion in 'Electric Guns' started by claybro, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. claybro

    claybro New Member

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    I have an echo1 ak74u with a dual sector gear. I have a 170 spring in it doesn't shoot far but feeds and sprays like a mother. I dump a 450 round lonex mag in about 15 seconds but I've had the bearings for the gears just destroy on me ruining a really expensive piston I need some suggestions about what bearings I should use. No I don't get more than 75 maybe 100 feet out of the distance and before some know it gets on here questioning me about the choice of spring it only cycles half the spring so it can have twice the rate of normal stock fire and has been cronoed at about 260-280. I know its not accurate cause I can't get it to shoot on semi without jamming. Thanks for any and all help in advanced.
     
  2. mvsrocks

    mvsrocks New Member

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  3. claybro

    claybro New Member

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    Yeah they're stock ones no not plastic but when the one cracked it threw off the balance and shredded a really expensive piston
     
  4. mvsrocks

    mvsrocks New Member

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    Unfortunate. The SHS ones shouldn't break easily. Also, what piston do you have? Good and durable pistons shouldn't cost more than $18.
     
  5. claybro

    claybro New Member

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    I have a piston steel piston and if the bearings still break it won't matter the gears will get thrown off and shred it again that's my dilemma I need bearing that will hold up to the rate of fire so the whole thing doesn't get screwed again
     
  6. mvsrocks

    mvsrocks New Member

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    Bearing aren't really designed to be durable. They are designed to increase bps. In high speed setups, you really should be using a bearing. Switch to a bushing. Less chance of breaking.
     
  7. claybro

    claybro New Member

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    Any good bushings I should look into then?
     
  8. mvsrocks

    mvsrocks New Member

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    Look at the one I liked, the SHS ones never have broken for me.
     
  9. alex

    alex New Member

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    show pics of your gearbox internals. especially your piston/teeth. methinks you hit PE which caused the bearings (or do you mean bushings) to break. when bearings break, the ball bearings scatter everywhere. i have to ask, did you adjust AOE? how well did you air seal the system? your fps is low for m170. i get that fps with m150.

    did you say you have a full metal piston? not recommended for DSG.
     
  10. mvsrocks

    mvsrocks New Member

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    Wait.. full metal as in the body is all metal, not just the teeth?
     
  11. L5132

    L5132 New Member

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    Duluth
    Doesn't sound to me as if he should be running bearings... Bushings should spin more than well enough. The whole point of a DSG is to not actually have the gears spinning at a ridiculous rate. Also, a 450 round mag in 15 seconds is only 30 RPS... I get that with 13:1s, an M120, good shimming, a lonex torque, and AOE correction on an 11.1v...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  12. claybro

    claybro New Member

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    Fps is low cause its a dual sector gear it doesn't pull the spring back far at all that's why the rate of fire is so high and the bushings or bearings whatever 2 of them split/broke so it throw everything off and destroyed an aluminium piston with steel teeth the seal is fine don't forget that there are like four different sets of dual sector with all different ratios for his far back the piston will be pulled I think imma end up just getting an aluminium 8mm gear box they bushings in that gear box should hold up all day
     
  13. L5132

    L5132 New Member

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    Duluth
    Alex knows what a DSG is, he has at least one. All DSGs will pull the piston back the same distance, the ratio tells how many turns of the motor are required to spin the DSG around once completely, for two rounds total. You will be better off with an SHS or Lonex 15 tooth piston, and dremeling off the necessary number of teeth. Sounds like you had bushings. Get some SHS bushings, no need for a new box. Alex is correct that you should be getting a better FPS, your airseal must be off or that is with heavier BBs.
    As I stated earlier, if you empty a 450 round magazine in 15 seconds that is only 30 RPS. I get that on a full stroke setup, as do many others.
     
  14. wookie

    wookie New Member

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    All of the knowledgeable people here know the principle of a dsg. Alex was saying your seal is poor as you only get 260-280 fps. On his dsg setup he could get that with an m150. Shs full metal rack pistons are usually recommended here. As for the bushings, you should get bushings, and not ball bearing bushings. There's no need to replace the gearbox.
    1. Did you correct the aoe with Sorbo?
    2. What piston were you using before?
    It sounds like you got premature engagement. Pictures of the gearbox?
    Edit: But then I got sniped. Then I it sniped. Then I got sniped. Bada upap
     
  15. L5132

    L5132 New Member

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    Duluth
    *BANG* Headshot! .
     
  16. claybro

    claybro New Member

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    It could be shooting at a higher fps I can't for the life of me get it to shoot semi every time I try it jams up so when I crono it its not registering one shot its sometimes 2 or 3 I don't know how a crono works but could that throw the reading off and that's just my guestimation on how fast its firing it could be a lot faster right now I just want it to work and then I'll work on rate of fire later if I need to bring it up if I feel its necessary for whatever kind of game I'm gonna be playing thanks for all the help and suggestions guys
     
  17. alex

    alex New Member

    4,794
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    Atlanta
    because of the high piston cycle rate, heavy (aluminum) pistons will not return quick enough and will engage with the sector gear before it has reset. this will cause Pre-Engagement (piston getting picked up after the sector gear already started it's cycle).

    this is how i usually swiss cheese my pistons for DSG (40-50rps @ 300 fps, 350fps with m170).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    i don't recommend this green piston. it was a test piston that is prone to rack cave-in.

    bushings/bearings don't crack on their own. there needs to be a force to cause them to crack. pre-engagement is one force that can cause them to crack. i prefer no bigger than 7mm bearings. 8mm bearings are too sensitive and requires constant cleaning and re-lubing. bushings work fine but not as efficient as bearings.

    i had a piston failure with an SHS 14T at 68rps @ 350fps. but no rack cave in. the piston guide cracked from AOE damage (my walmart test sorbo failed).
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  18. L5132

    L5132 New Member

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    Duluth
    What exactly do you mean by the sorbo failing? It shredded, or just didn't cushion enough?
     
  19. alex

    alex New Member

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    Atlanta
    it disintegrated... i was hopping the hardened surface could withstand the stress. not... i'm retesting with a flat washer to protect the surface and the cylinder buffer removed. it's softer than 40d sorbo. if it doesn't work, i'll stick with sorbo. i still get v2 front end cracking with sorbo.

    [​IMG]

    i do alot of product testing...
     
  20. L5132

    L5132 New Member

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    Duluth
    I suppose with that heavy of a spring it could... Maybe sandwich that and some sorbo? Assuming it stays in one piece and the sorbo takes a lot of the force it could help.