switch life extenders

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by adas1223, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

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    Edit: the diode has different names (suppression diode, rectifier diode, fly-back diode,motor diode) its not a mosfet. Mosfets take away all the damage to trigger contacts. SLE's lessen the damage to trigger contacts. it IS an alternative to mosfets if space or money is an issue. seems like a quick fix to make a stock gun lipo ready.

    KWA uses this in their new lineup. Dirty Works Airsoft sells/sold this. ANY info is appreciated. this forum is pretty dry when it comes to this.

    heres some pics: (the trigger contact pic is supposedly of 3,200 rounds fired, which voltage i dont know)

    View attachment 150049

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    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
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  2. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'd call it a "Jumper".
     
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  3. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

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    What is that electronic piece that's inside the heat wrap? exact name or model # or similar. i'll try web searching a contact arc jumper or something.
     
  4. Peeque

    Peeque Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    From this thread I would assume it's a debouncer/capacitor that's just absorbing the left over power coming from the motor side of the wiring. There will still be arcing when you pull the trigger but not when you let go. I would not use this instead of a MOSFET.
     
  5. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

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    heres more info from their site*



    11728953_576287849179609_330363786058371861_o.jpg
     
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  6. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

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    Got my answer from their youtube video reply lol "This is essentially just a flyback diode correct?" ...Their response was "yes" lol!

    from what was shown, the arc is minimized substantially. its a tried and true technique for reducing arcing. definitely not a mosfet, but they have good points. the rest is them trying to sell off the $30 'airsoft quality' suppression diode/rectifier diode which essentially cost $4 for at least a 10 pack on ebay.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  7. Peeque

    Peeque Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Ok, so I wasn't too far off. I wouldn't spend $30 on it but it does seem easier and faster to install than a MOSFET. I would still use a MOSFET over that.
     
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  8. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

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    Heres another Video made by ICS to decrease trigger arcing utilizing a (SB160) diode motor bridge

     
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  9. link0

    link0 Well-Known Member

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    I'm very interested in this, as I don't run a MOSFET in any of my guns due to laziness (and I'm quite satisfied with my trigger response on a 7.4v + strong motor). KWA doesn't include a MOSFET in any of their most expensive guns and runs them in all their "11.1v lipo ready" guns.

    If there is a place to order a bunch of them for a good price, I'd be game. $30 would be a really bad price, since I can find a nice MOFSET for cheaper than that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2018
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  10. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    Arcing increases as the Voltage & Amps increase or rather the actual Watts

    Volts x Amps = Watts

    lame stock guns produce about 11~12 amps
    what voltage you use determines the final Wattage or how big the arcing

    7.4v x 11.5a = 85W
    11.1v x 11.5a = 127.65W

    beef up a gun and amps doubles even triples on DSG's etc....

    So 7.4v x 20a = 148W
    11.1v x 20a = 222W

    It is the final Watts that burn out the contacts
    you stay on 7.4v on moderate gun and you will be OK for a while
    Or stock gun on 11.1v is still under 150 Watts

    The motor, the gearing, spring strength & stress add to the amount of amps it draws
    Then depending on the voltage of battery used you arrive at the Wattage figure
    (Amps being noted as the gun cycles on auto for say 3~5 seconds)

    However these are just cycling figures btw
    from still the power drawn and the burst of high amp/watts from still is much greater

    But the Watts is really the value that makes the contacts burn out

    Just trying to explain why some guns run on 11.1v without a mosfet for ages
    and others burn out much quicker
    also the boxes with tiny micro switches inside MUST have a mosfet imho
    those micro switches - even though they look industrial in Army Force QD boxes
    they burn out much quicker than ye olde chunky old school trigger switch contacts

    If you are going to beef up & upgrade your gun, you would be wise to use a mosfet
    if you are just servicing your gun and making it just more efficient but still mostly stock
    a mosfet is optional but not a real must in most cases tbh (depends on amps/watts)
     
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  11. Lefse

    Lefse Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Semi, related question(s), or rather an observation; I have noticed that the trigger contacts in my ICS M4 seem to be made of different metals? One has the typical copper color, while the other looks like it might be aluminum, or is it maybe copper coated with something? Do you think maybe they've done this to prolong the life of the switch?

    If you zoom in on the contacts you'll notice that they're clearly different colors:
    [​IMG]

    Yes yes, I know soda is bad for me, the caffeine fuels my brain. :D
     
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  12. BOA_SP3CT3R

    BOA_SP3CT3R Moderator Staff Member Moderator Supporting Member

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    I've noticed in my guns without mosfets that there's generally more arcing on the lower contact, going to the motor. It might be however the way it was making contact with the trolley, could've been bent differently.
    Wasn't sure what that had to do with this at first, then I looked closer at the picture:p
     
  13. link0

    link0 Well-Known Member

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    I prefer black coffee over soda. Sugar will kill ya.
     
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  14. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    Got one ICS lower box with slightly different contacts like yours
    one looks slightly coppery

    then again I got a front wired one still in receiver with both contacts looking silvery

    The variation in colour/color alters slightly as you angle the box
    well it seemed to as I was going to take pics
    could be a coating or arcing/lack of arcing or heat causing the difference is appearance
    ultra long shot - but the one contact that makes contact first won't arc
    it would be the last contact that conducts with trolley that in theory arc on a regular basis
    that contact prong would likely heat up and that "could" be where a slight change happens

    Long story short, the answer is fuctifino, I'm just stabbing at possibilities maybe
    I overthink stuff way too much I tell myself - damn OCD

    could be a variation in material, a temp change on leading/trailing contact prior to mosfet
    or - yeah fuctifino sounds about the real scientific answer
     
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  15. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

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    Silver plating?
     
  16. adas1223

    adas1223 Well-Known Member

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    Ebay has sb160 diodes 10pack for $5. Not bad $0.50
     
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  17. link0

    link0 Well-Known Member

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  18. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    afik the purpose of the ICS / schottky diode was mainly to help motor
    or rather the commutator from excessive carbon build up/arcing

    I've known a motor or two to burn out a bit quickly
    though unsure if it was a blown winding or something like the com wrecked with carbon
    but the ICS motor crapped out rather quickly

    So I'm guessing this diode mod helps prolong the life of the motor/com
    protecting it from arcing or probably potential reverse spikes in operation

    It "might" help or assist other areas like the switch/mosfet/battery spikes from motor
    but unsure, though it is not uncommon to see these fitted in certain applications

    Which begs the question - why aren't these fitted as standard to many motors ???
    Why don't ICS themselves fit them anyway to their 2000/3000 motors ???

    Does it really help much - or is it a marketing ploy not adding a 50c diode
    if motor burns out a bit quicker then that is good for business - buy new motor(s)
    But it's quite old this mod so surprised nobody has confirmed if it really helps or not
    or just a wishful bit of preventative precaution that may/may not help that much

    I'm inclined to think it might help prolong the motor life a little say 25% perhaps
    more so at higher voltage/speed where any spike damage could be much greater
    Ahh well - could be worth a go next time you are slapping together a new build
    then check for expected carbon build up - which I think it is for motor life imho
    (this is all just pure guess work btw - still sticking with fuctifino atm)
     
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  19. link0

    link0 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone own a recent KWA AEG? Pretty sure they all have this diode on their motors, which they claim to make their AEG 11.1v lipo ready. Would love to know what model diode they use.

    I bought a 10 pack of the Schottky diodes from link I posted to mess around with.
     
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  20. Sitting_Duck

    Sitting_Duck Well-Known Member

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    Don't think these are fitted as std to most if not nearly all AEG's

    the SB160 spec is here:

    https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/SB160?qs=XkG7G60aEB4X4Zy1PU4mMw==

    dunno wtf it all means though, 60v & 40amps is all I saw

    more info on RC stuff like this:

    https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?12210-Schottky-Diodes

    seems like it helps the motor life - but still wtf don't they fit these as std is beyond me

    As for manufacturers claims of LiPo ready.....
    Make a gun run mildly and the amps will be low on a stock gun
    run that on 11.1v and the Watts won't be anything too high to fret over
    viola - " our guns are LiPo ready... " marketing crap

    Think most of us take these claims with a pinch of salt tbh
    Oh yeah, just wtf is the mosfet then - don't worry I'll have to fit one then
    mind you even if some guns have crappy weak reg mosfets (not G&G ETU's)
    at least if/when that weak lame mosfet blows easily, you can or should...
    should be able to chop & replace it with say a Gate ASR mosfet without a fuss
    (coz at least the generic donkey work of the wiring is already done)

    yeah LiPo ready claim is vastly over used and does not always guarantee a mosfet
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018