Thinking of trying to make a flat hop bucking and nub

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by Mike223, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. Mike223

    Mike223 Member

    77
    11
    Stacy
    So I am considering doing a flat hop modification since I have my cyma cm040i taken apart anyways.

    Is it ok to do it with the modifications to the stock bucking? And how do you keep the hop up nub to stay in the little divot for it? I tried with the stock one and it keeps falling out. Do you guys normally glue it in?
     
  2. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,768
    4,884
    Minneapolis
    Do not do this yet.

    True flat hop is destructive to your hop-up unit. Mess it up and you will put an AEG offline.

    Get a simple maple leaf packing and matching nub and just do drop ins for now.
     

  3. Mike223

    Mike223 Member

    77
    11
    Stacy
    Ok I will not mess with it lol. Would the stock bucking be less damaging to the hop up than if I put in a maple leaf bucking and bub?

    I probably should just leave it alone as there’s nothing wrong with the stock one besides the nub not staying in the grove. I saw a thread posted on here a few years ago with one or two saying that they do glue there hop up nub so I may do the same.
     
  4. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    882
    455
    Flat hops are great... if done properly. Laylax flat bridge nubs and a smooth flat hop packing is easiest. But you can also mod any packing to work for one, but it's more advanced.

    If done right they will be much better than most other alternatives. Basically they are harder than throwing in different packings, but easier than r hops or even elvish tac patches.

    ALL hop up mods require absolute OCD details to get performance better than you had before.
     
  5. wetpee

    wetpee Active Member

    202
    82
    Chicago
    There are nubs that have a flat shaped interface with the "bucking" so they fit in a standard hop arm. This flat style nub is essential to achieving the benefits offered with flat hop, rhop, and any "buckings" with enlarged contact patches. I wouldn't glue a nub to the hop arm as that would be destructive. If you are willing to do that, you may as well do the flat hop mod. The great thing about flat hop modding is it's essentially a free DIY mod using stuff you could find around the house. Shave the inside of the packing flat, shave the hop arm flat, and cut up some pencil eraser or similar material for a new nub.
    Major benefits are the ability to hop heavier BBs, and also require less downard obstruction by the contact patch into the barrel, maintaining more BB velocity.
     
  6. Squad144

    Squad144 Active Member

    272
    74
    Ocean Springs
    True but he could also just buy a maple leaf packing and omega nub of his choice and get the same if not better performance as this mod, but with no risk and long term use. The only mod I can think of would be to file down the barrel window, as not all maple leaf packings like smaller windows, but that is a easy fix and just requires a file; might take maybe ten minutes depending on his barrel material (which is more than likely brass).
     
  7. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    882
    455
    You see the issue I have with maple leaf packings isn't really the packing itself. It's the fact that basically no barrel has its alignment slot cut 180 degrees from the window. Resulting in the packing sitting a hair to one side curving the shots. It's not forgiving.

    A flat hop ignores this slight flaw and ignores if the barrel is not perfectly aligned. Yes it's better to have a perfectly aligned barrel, but likely it will always be off a hair, that effect is significant to the performance of a maple leaf packing where the "patch" is connected to the packing.

    I've tried many maple leafs packings in different barrels, stock ones, pdi, lambda, zci, madbull and laylax, the barrel slots and cutouts aren't perfect enough to out preform a flat hop or even a r hop in my experience. Mostly because of that packing alignment cutout issue. I did find if you cut the alignment protrusion off the packing and hand align the "patch" of the maple leaf packing it will work quite a bit better, but not better than alternatives.

    Maybe I'm too ocd for my own good idk.
     
    wetpee likes this.
  8. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,768
    4,884
    Minneapolis
    That is what we all have to deal with. A no standard industry.

    You can put a Flat Hop Unit in an "unmodified" barrel, but you will suffer limitations also. Poor depression flexibility, bad angles of contact. To make Flat hop work as it is truly intended, you do Need to file the barrel. Can you make it "work" without, yes. Is it ideal, no.

    So, that is why ML is better. No need to mod the hop-up unit itself and then just slip it on.

    The advantages of the ML unit over Flat Hop is that you can mix and match with out the modding of the packing and the hop-up unit.

    Need soft, run a 50, need medium run a 70, need a hard, run a 80.

    Try and find those durometers for Flat hop and it's much more difficult.

    Key here is "simplicity".
     
  9. Mike223

    Mike223 Member

    77
    11
    Stacy
    If I shouldn’t glue the nub to the arm how do I get it to stop falling off? Am I missing something or doing it wrong or do I need a new nub?

    https://imgur.com/a/bRA0cvT
    This is the stock nub I believe if the picture helps with anything lol.
     
  10. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,768
    4,884
    Minneapolis
    They are meant to come off. In fact they are suppose to "shift" each time the bb hits it.

    You can use contact cement to give it something to stick to...but don't make it a "permanent" attachment.
     
  11. Mike223

    Mike223 Member

    77
    11
    Stacy
    Would it even be worth it from the stock one if it still works? And what kind of ml would you get? Like an Mr. hop or a macron etc. And where do you recommend getting the drop in set from? I figure a 70 degree since I think stock it shoots around 400 or something, and im using .2s but recently got .25s so im not pushing super heavy bbs

    https://www.airsoftatlanta.com/coll...f-aeg-rubber-70-degree?variant=22145900183633

    https://www.airsoftatlanta.com/coll...roducts/maple-leaf-aeg-hop-up-tensioner-omega

    If I do get one are these what you'd recommend?
     
  12. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    8,768
    4,884
    Minneapolis
    Yes...the old style nub is dated in design and function.

    What I get depends on what barrel I am using. MR and Super MACs require large barrel windows for optimum performance.

    I get them from Hong Kong for a reduced price and I redistribute the sets to anyone that wants to buy them from me, my ebay store or at the fields where I show up in the summer.

    Getting them from AA is just fine too.

    However the guidance on which to get published by resellers is pretty much "garbage". Again...it's this industry's lack of any standards any their lack of any need to provide helpful info.
     
  13. Ben3721

    Ben3721 Well-Known Member

    882
    455
    The laylax nub manual has instructions to cut the nub to fit the stock window of the barrel without having to recut the window of the barrel.
    Brill sells a two pack for 14 bucks. Cheaper than evike. Still pricey but they are good.

    The krytac laylax barrel one has a very large factory window, which opens up a lot of hop up mod options, but it's overkill for lighter bbs. However they grove three rings on the tip of the barrel for centering o rings, which the machining warps inside the bore if you look down it. Unfortunately even lapping doesn't remove this flaw. Only a cut down and recrown will.
     
  14. wetpee

    wetpee Active Member

    202
    82
    Chicago
    Have you disassembled the whole hop unit? The nub is supposed to be removable. I usually put a drop of oil or grease on the hop arm to help stick the nub to it.
     
    Ben3721 and Squad144 like this.
  15. Mike223

    Mike223 Member

    77
    11
    Stacy
    Yes, I had to put back in the barrel and the hop up and everything and the nub fell out in the process and then I lost it for a little bit but then I found it again. At first I was wondering what the hell is this for but then I looked it up and was like oh that’s important lol. So it was apart at one point, everything but the nub is in the gun right now.

    Anyways I put the gun together without the nub in it just to see if I had any other issues besides the nub. But I will take it apart later again and try this when I put the nub back in. And from what I remember the little ring that goes underneath the hop up until in front of the c clip seemed to slide up and down even when I put the clip on. (Idk if this is an issue or not) Buuuut maybe I was doing it wrong or misremembering so I will see how it is again when I try and put the nub back in.
     
  16. wetpee

    wetpee Active Member

    202
    82
    Chicago
    That's "normal". Refer to earlier discussion of lack of standards in airsoft. It's meant to help stabilize the barrel in the hop unit but if it isn't in there firmly then its likely not doing a whole lot. It is very common and also advisable to add some o-rings, teflon tape, plastic shims, or whatever you can find to assist in barrel stabilization. Ideally, you want to have the inner barrel centered in the outer barrel, but its probably not essential.