thinking of Vietnam-era M16 airsoft gun

Discussion in 'What Gun Should I Get?' started by Neptune, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    I have recently become somewhat of an amateur historian on the Vietnam War. Its interesting how even fifty plus years later its still so controversial and multi-faceted debate. Anyway, Im thinking about getting an airsoft gun of an era-correct M16. The best I found in terms of historical accuracy seems to be the JG VN M16: http://www.evike.com/products/43148/

    It seems to be an XM16E1 / early production M16A1 (due to duckbill versus bird cage flash hider). Me personally I think the duckbill is more sleek. It looks like perhaps the Colt Model 603? This would have been the first variant produced after the initial (and utterly dismal) field tests.

    My only questions are how are the internals on the JG airsoft guns? I know they aren't the best, but are they generally reliable or easy to fix/replace? how solid is the plastic stock and handguard?

    I only plan to use it for target shooting and wall hanging, I don't intend to game with it. so is the accuracy pretty good or easy to upgrade the barrel and such? how hard are the iron sights? (Ive always had trouble with aperture, I prefer standard v-notch) how comfortable is the stock for resting your cheek and how comfortable is the triangular-shaped handguard?
     
  2. gunnerk19

    gunnerk19 Active Member

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    The one thing I notice about the JG is that "vietnam" version of the M16 shouldn't have the fence around the magazine release button, or the teardrop shaped forward assist, it would be button style. Not with the three prong flash hider.

    I guess it depends on if you're doing early or late war; if late, you could probably just replace the three prong with an aftermarket birdcage.

    Top is the SP1, bottom is the XM16E2.
     

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  3. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    Sorry to be a ****, but you didn't really answer my question...


    how are the internals on the JG airsoft guns? I know they aren't the best, but are they generally reliable or easy to fix/replace? how solid is the plastic stock and handguard?

    I only plan to use it for target shooting and wall hanging, I don't intend to game with it. so is the accuracy pretty good or easy to upgrade the barrel and such? how hard are the iron sights? (Ive always had trouble with aperture, I prefer standard v-notch) how comfortable is the stock for resting your cheek and how comfortable is the triangular-shaped handguard?
     
  4. TangoNoob

    TangoNoob New Member

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    G&P M16-VN

    Look into this, it has the proper receiver and its better quality overall. It's going to be a higher quality alloy as compared to the potmetal you will see in JG recievers/barrels. You can easily replace the orange flash hider with a steel one of your choosing.

    The sights should be fine, but since they're an older version, you might need an adjustment tool. I'm not sure if its included with the gun, but I'm sure you can find one online. The handguards should be stable and the stock should be shorter than the M16A2/A4 stock so you should have no problem shouldering it.
     
  5. MADR77

    MADR77 Well-Known Member

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    The plastic on JG's are pretty good. Of course they aren't as nice as VFC or G&P but I don't think it will break easily. The G&P M16s are awesome from what I have heard as are the Echo 1 rifles (Stag-15 I believe it is?). Either choice would be good.
     
  6. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    My budget is only around $200-$300 total (ie gun, battery, charger, spare mag, tight bore, etc). So to compare...


    With the JG M16 VN my budget would come to $276.60

    http://www.evike.com/products/43148/
    http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_74_640&products_id=1224
    http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_122_197&products_id=7738
    http://www.evike.com/products/31392/
    http://www.evike.com/products/29857/



    With the G&P (if this is the specific model to which you're referring) would cost $396.20

    http://www.evike.com/products/35273/
    http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_74_640&products_id=1224
    http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_122_197&products_id=7736
    http://www.evike.com/products/25337/
    http://www.evike.com/products/24390/


    If my budget were a bit higher (and if I were actually going to game with it), then yeah Id DEFINITELY get the G&P. But since I'm mostly going to be using it for backyard plinking I'm more inclined to get the JG (even if it is SLIGHTLY anachronistic).
     
  7. gunnerk19

    gunnerk19 Active Member

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    Yeah, sorry about that...

    I just looked at the JG and got stuck on what was wrong with them calling it a Vietnam M16.
     
  8. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    Im sorry I snapped too. Its just your post sounded a bit pedantic. LOL

    It is a 'Nam era...but it's like a Franken-gun of 'Nam era. Early flash hider, late war tear drops (I remember seeing some pictures with tear drop but I think that was towards the end of the war and even then the tear drops were fairly limited), super late war ribs (may have been developed around mid-70's or so towards the end).


    Wikipedia cites the following description:

    XM16E1 and M16A1 (Colt Model 603)

    The U.S. Army XM16E1 was essentially the same weapon as the M16 with the addition of a forward assist and corresponding notches in the bolt carrier. The M16A1 was the finalized production model in 1967.

    To address issues raised by the XM16E1's testing cycle, a closed, bird-cage flash suppressor replaced the XM16E1's three-pronged flash suppressor which caught on twigs and leaves. Various other changes were made after numerous problems in the field. Cleaning kits were developed and issued while barrels with chrome-plated chambers and later fully lined bores were introduced.

    With these and other changes, the malfunction rate slowly declined and new soldiers were generally unfamiliar with early problems. A rib was built into the side of the receiver on the XM16E1 to help prevent accidentally pressing the magazine release button while closing the ejection port cover. This rib was later extended on production M16A1s to help in preventing the magazine release from inadvertently being pressed. The hole in the bolt that accepts the cam pin was crimped inward on one side, in such a way that the cam pin may not be inserted with the bolt installed backwards, which would cause failures to eject until corrected. The M16A1 is no longer in service with the United States, but is still standard issue in many world armies.

    ^
    However it is Wikipedia so I don't know how accurate that all is *shrug*



    EDIT:

    And is that just a regular M1 sling? Those out to be pretty easy to find, right.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  9. gunnerk19

    gunnerk19 Active Member

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  10. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    After some digging around, I found some pictures that show the XM16E1 / M16A1 with the same features as listed in Wikipedia's description:

    XM16E1 and M16A1 (Colt Model 603)

    The U.S. Army XM16E1 was essentially the same weapon as the M16 with the addition of a forward assist and corresponding notches in the bolt carrier. The M16A1 was the finalized production model in 1967.

    To address issues raised by the XM16E1's testing cycle, a closed, bird-cage flash suppressor replaced the XM16E1's three-pronged flash suppressor which caught on twigs and leaves. Various other changes were made after numerous problems in the field. Cleaning kits were developed and issued while barrels with chrome-plated chambers and later fully lined bores were introduced.

    With these and other changes, the malfunction rate slowly declined and new soldiers were generally unfamiliar with early problems. A rib was built into the side of the receiver on the XM16E1 to help prevent accidentally pressing the magazine release button while closing the ejection port cover. This rib was later extended on production M16A1s to help in preventing the magazine release from inadvertently being pressed. The hole in the bolt that accepts the cam pin was crimped inward on one side, in such a way that the cam pin may not be inserted with the bolt installed backwards, which would cause failures to eject until corrected. The M16A1 is no longer in service with the United States, but is still standard issue in many world armies.


    [​IMG]

    teardrop forward assist AND ribbing/fence are both clearly visible, so they did have em in 'Nam (not sure what years that was implemented though).


    [​IMG]

    here is another picture with rifles showing teardrop forward assists WITH three-prong flash hiders.


    It seems like the rifles in the bottom photo were produced first (ie XM16E1), and later they added ribbing/fence and birdcage flash hiders (ie M16A1). So judging from these photos, the JG M16 VN DOES seem to be period-correct, though probably a transitional model of some sort.
     
  11. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    Which battery would get me close to the rate off ire of the real M16? According to Wikipedia (not best source I know), the m16 has a cyclic rate of 700-950 rounds a minute.

    So what battery would get me close to that?
     
  12. Tactical_Skittles

    Tactical_Skittles Active Member

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    You are looking at ~14rps for a realistic fire rate. There is more to a gun's rate of fire than just the battery. Motor, gears, quality of the shim job, wire thickness, etc...but in a stock JG, a 9.6v NiMH should do the trick.
     
  13. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    checked the math, and you're pretty close. according to the calculator its closer to 12-16rps. so yeah 9.6 sounds right especially if upgrade motor, gears, shims, etc like you said.

    thanks skittles

    EDIT:

    Also noticed the delta ring is wrong on the JG M16. It should be the straight type, not the one where its beveled or flared. Those type didn't come out until A2, it was done to make it easier for armory staff to switch handguards and work on gas tube (which was located inside the handguard).

    Other than that its period-correct as previously discussed above. :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
  14. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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  15. Tactical_Skittles

    Tactical_Skittles Active Member

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    BB's, battery, and skill.
     
  16. axlej11

    axlej11 Active Member Supporting Member

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    JGs already have full metal internals, except the hop up. Unless you're looking for faster trigger response and ROF, the gears dont need an upgrade. JG gears are some of the toughest gears Ive come across. The piston I would replace, I haven't had good luck with their orange pistons. The stock cylinder is fine unless you are changing barrel length to accomodate for volume. A tightbore barrel is the last thing you should worry about as it does little to accuracy and range.

    I would focus on DIY mods first, starting with the hop up. Use quality bbs. If youre looking to increase range, look into stability mods and the flat hop mod, found in the stickies in the gun building and modifications section. Also look at the "fine tuning a hop up guide". Then do your research before getting into the gearbox. Theyre tricky at first but once you know whats what and how things must go, it's easy as pie. Basic mods. Shimming, AoE, regreasing, etc. Theres guides here for those too.

    As for battery choice, I would go with a 7.4v lipo. Decent trigger response on stock gears and ROF is similar to that of a 9.6v nimh. Make sure you know lipo safety first and balance charging. Going lipo is so much cheaper than buying NiMh batteries and a smart charger for them. A simple balance charger can be had for $12 and a decent 7.4 for $8 or under. Hobbyking is a decent site for lipos.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  17. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    sorry to bump yet again...

    now according to this -
    http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Colt_AR-15_Identification_Guide

    the only thing wrong with the jg are the stock (which seems to be an A2), the delta ring (again A2), and the flash hider (XM16E1). Everything else is good to go for A1. So I figure I'll buy the jg and change the afore mentioned parts.

    And yes, I know GP makes an M16A1 era-correct but its about a hundred bucks out of my price range. And yeah, it'll be the same price once I upgrade the jg, but this way I can do it gradually.

    But I digress. I looked around and I haven't found any A1 delta rings, so I'll either just live with it (which doesn't bother me to be honest), or just use a real steel one. Flash hider is obviously fixable (though reviews say its a pain to get the jg one off first LOL). which leaves the stock.

    would this - http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=977 be era-correct to the A1 as described by imdb? I think it is, but could someone who actually has one confirm it for me? thanks.
     
  18. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    well shoot. the ca one aint right either. <- horrible grammar I know LOL

    sorry to keep bumping this thread. but god its hard trying to find an era-correct m16a1 for under $300 (or to mod one even).


    but I digress. the classic army one is wrong. it is the A1 stock, but with the XM16 butt plate.

    G&P makes a correct one. however from the pics on their site, it looks like the plate slides down and then pulls off (even though the trapdoor is right there). I read some reviews saying the G&P M16A1 has a hard time getting a 9.6 large type through the door so that may be why it just slides down and off.

    so if someone has the G&P m16a1, would a 9.6 or even an 8.4 large type nimh fit through the door and still be an okay fit once its actually in the stock? (also would it fit on a jg m16 without modding it?)