[RB42]

So, I bought the Tippmann a week or two ago from this site's for sale section, and the thing is really nice, very clean, well taken care of. Problem is, it was set up for cq and the valve was the low velocity version (one vent internally). I found a stock new valve (two vents) and installed it today. FPS is much better now, but... It runs away on semi, going full auto until you cock it or pull the air line.
The gun is stock other than the new valve, and a tightbore +s-hop.
I'd ask in the Facebook group, I'm a member there, but evidently I've po'd FB unfortunately, and my account is under review. (Probably cause I gave em a birthday that's a couple days off... I really don't trust Facebook).

Is there anyone over here that might have any tips? I'm assuming he bought this gun new with the low velocity installed, and it's been tuned for that, so now that I'm running the stock valve, maybe it's starved? I can't see the velocity screw causing this.. rof screw perhaps? The manuals don't list runaway full auto as a symptom that the rof screw would fix..

Searched everywhere for any answer, but I suspect if there is one it's locked up in Facebook..

Appreciate any tips or help!

FYI when it runs away on me, it's damn fast! That kind of rate is really impressive - but only when I can control it of course!!!
-=RB

 

[rm105]

Was it fine / working as intended before you swapped the valve?

If not / didn't test, check if these two pins are still in the trigger group - removing them was a popular thing to do on these guns to get 'unregulated' full auto on SEMI. Also make sure the sear isn't worn/sticky/damaged while you're in there.

 

[RB42]

Generally worked fine before the valve swap. It had a really low fps that dropped sometimes (165, 160, 155, 150, 145..) with each shot in semi, which I thought was strange but figured it could have been a regulator. It's shooting 260 now with .28s and the velocity turned in quite a ways, covering about half the opening (it was set that way when I got it new) and the fps that I could test with before it goes nuts were +/-7 fps.

We did get the bottle fully filled, but I haven't been able to test with another bottle/line to rule out that part.

I pulled the trigger assembly yesterday after the issue started and it looked ok but I didn't do a full inspection, so I'll do that today. Luckily, I found a full parts kit last week too, so I should have anything that's missing

Thank you again for the help!

 

[RB42]

Just an update.. It looks really clean, (practically new!) everything seems to move smoothly, no missing pins, sear is barely scratched and matches the sear I have in my parts kit (not bent). Tried different positions of the buffer tube (out one, in fully), and lots of different settings on the RoF screw. I will make one more run thru it, pulling the trigger pistons and such apart, cleaning and re-lubing, and probably set the RoF screw fully in then back out one turn and adjust it out more (seems like most folks use 1.75 to 2 turns out from fully in). Just to try and get it back to factory settings more or less.

If I turned the RoF screw in almost all the way, it does behave in semi, unless I fire quickly, and it will then take off on me.

I'm suspecting low line pressure however, after reviewing all the FB posts (yeah FB finally unlocked me.. no reasons why but.. whatever...). Before I swapped valves, we chrono'd it and it dropped 5FPS every shot when I fired on semi about 2rounds/sec (160, 155, 150, 145, 140...). The tank stayed over 2k and is still right around 2K now after all my t/s efforts.. I have no way to know actual line pressure however. But what I see is mentioned a lot in FB posts is this is common when line pressure is too low (or, at the end of a CO2 cartridge's life). Looks like I need minimum 800 PSI reg setup, and more than 1K in a tank to prevent runaway.

I do have a CO2 mag finally. I just need to install the parts to use it. That may be quicker than taking it to a paintball shop to diagnose.. if it fires great on a new CO2 cartridge, then I'd think its very likely line pressure issues.

One thing strange to me.. and I must be missing something on the buffer tube.. some people say turn it 1/4 turn out or half a turn out - how could you do that? Isn't it forced to line up correctly so the buttstock adjustment detents are always on the bottom? I could only see adjusting it in full turn increment/decrements is really possible.

 

[Graybeard]

What regulator are you running on the tank?

 

[RB42]

Ninja I believe, 09-21-x3 is the number I see. Amped braided line with a 3k 62cubic inch tank.

 

[Graybeard]

Have you adjusted the regulator at all?

 

[RB42]

Nope, unfortunately this is my first hpa setup, so I'm not sure what's involved there, of what kind of tools are needed. Is it something you can work on, if say, your comfortable replacing parts on a Tippmann m4 or rebuilding aeg gearboxes? I don't have any gauges that would be able to read air pressure over 200psi normally.

 

[Graybeard]

is your Tank an SLP or low pressure tank? Can you take a picture of the tank regulator?

 

[RB42]

Sure! I didn't think this was SLP.. however, taking a photo, I certainly see the faint image of the letters "SLP" on the side now..

I admit, I'm a noob. Haven't played paintball since 2011, when we had CO2 guns.. and this is my first HPA. SLP means super low pressure right? So.. that's like 3-400PSI? I wouldn't expect it to fire correctly at those pressures, even with a low velocity (single port hole) power valve.

I wish I had a gauge, if I'd have been able to see it's running way less than the 7-800psi people state it needs. Maybe I'd have skipped creating this thread (although, I suppose it helps everyone else if they can find this info easily w/o having to join the Facebook group).

I haven't converted it to CO2 cartridge yet, was going to try that today. Didn't have a CO2 mag until last weekend's delivery. My thinking is it will help verify its low air pressure.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Graybeard]

Well, I’m far from an expert, but the polarstar/wolverine/et al stuff likes to run on SLP rigs. They adjust the flow from a secondary regulator. Whereas your tipman runs straight from the bottle regulator. But as you said, it needs to be running on at least 800 psi. Amped Airsoft has a lot of helpful vids to getting started with HPA stuff. Some of it’s a bit dated, but still educational. I think those new(ish) lancer tac and G&P mechanical HPA systems require at least 600 psi to function.

My experience has been primarily with the P* Kythera system and the redline n7M engine. These systems run on the SLP regulators, and upgrade between 40-150 psi.

I think that getting started with the HPA can be intimidating, but I think it’s not that difficult to figure out once you get over that first hump. If you can handle taking your gun appart and putting it back together, then you should be able to handle the HPA stuff. Just have to be mindful with the pressure.


Edit: I think you are heading in the right direction with trying the co2 mags to prove functionality. You can pick up a new bottle regulator w/o the bottle too. so if you figure out the problem is the regulator on the bottle, you don’t have to replace the bottle.

 

[RB42]

HA! I like it with co2!
I only have one mag so it's not too practical to use on the field, unless I carry loaders... Which I probably won't.

But so far it hasn't run away on me. 300fps with .28s, 12rps (I rarely use full and would be more conservative running it on a CO2 mag anyhow). No hop applied yet, I left it dialed all the way back till I fix the runaway.

I kind of feel like we've isolated the issue to the hpa feed pressure/supply at this point. I'll try to find a friend on the field with a similar setup, or maybe see if I can run by the paintball store and get it checked. Thanks for the references, I'll review those too!

If it is the air supply, it would jive with a lot of the FB posts I saw. That and the gun is really clean, practically new inside so worn parts didn't seem likely.

Once I find out for sure I'll post the answer here also.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[RB42]

Stopped by the Giant Party Sports store in Allen and spoke with one of the guys about the issue. He was able to find a gauge and called his tech on the phone, and sure enough, its outputting ~200PSI. He also mentioned that typically, the smaller gauges are used on low pressure (SLP) systems, so that's another sign. Took the tech a bit of discussion to bring him up to speed on the M4 (he was used to people with p* and such and had not worked with a Tippmann before) but I brought my manual with me which helped.. and in the end I grabbed a new 68cu 4500psi tank.

They filled it for free and I got it home to test.. it works awesome!!! Had to adjust FPS down to ~325 so I can run it at the 25' MED level (those are D14's rules, other fields vary I imagine), but its fairly consistent and fun to fire!

Thanks Graybeard, RM105 for your help!

 

[Graybeard]

Stopped by the Giant Party Sports store in Allen and spoke with one of the guys about the issue. He was able to find a gauge and called his tech on the phone, and sure enough, its outputting ~200PSI. He also mentioned that typically, the smaller gauges are used on low pressure (SLP) systems, so that's another sign. Took the tech a bit of discussion to bring him up to speed on the M4 (he was used to people with p* and such and had not worked with a Tippmann before) but I brought my manual with me which helped.. and in the end I grabbed a new 68cu 4500psi tank.

They filled it for free and I got it home to test.. it works awesome!!! Had to adjust FPS down to ~325 so I can run it at the 25' MED level (those are D14's rules, other fields vary I imagine), but its fairly consistent and fun to fire!

Thanks Graybeard, RM105 for your help!

Glad it was something 'simple' like that. Like I said before, you can get a new regulator on that bottle if you are looking for a backup tank. Not all places can fill */4500 tanks. Their compressors are only rated to 3000. So it's definitely something to consider.

I run airstocks in my HPA guns. So I have 3 13/3000 and a 15/4500 tank.

https://www.amazon.com/Ninja-Paintb...Paintball+tank+regu,aps,66&sr=8-12&th=1&psc=1

 

[RB42]

That would be cool, but the closest I can get with a Tippmann is an angled CO2 tank adapter to the handle tap (works like the small CO2 tank paintball gun setups). The buffer in mine has a weighted spring that's 'kicked' by the bolt to give kickback, so its not so easy.

One takeaway from all this, is we did find that with a low velocity valve, it is actually possible to run an SLP source (~200psi) and have the gun function. I think its got to be "right on the edge" of possible.. kickback is very low, and FPS will be under 200. Also, I found the markings of the power valves are sometimes missing, so you really should pull the nozzle (power tube) off the valve assembly to count the ports to figure out what you have for certain. My stock replacement valve assembly has no markings/divots.

I wouldn't ever play it that way but perhaps there's some scenario that works for it.

 

[Graybeard]

Sorry, didn’t mean to imply you should run the airstocks…just using it as an explanation of the number of extra bottles. That’s interesting that you might be able to get it to work on that low of air pressure. But I agree with you too that I wouldn’t run the Tippman that low for game play. Just invites issues in the field.

 

[Graybeard]

So, you can fill a 4500 to 3000, but 4500 tanks are more expensive. So if you aren't going to be able to fill it to it's potential, than don't spend the money. Some will argue weight, but it's not worth the investment for the weight. You are getting 1.5 times the shots through it compared to an equal sized 3000 tank. They came out with a 15/4500 for airstocks use. The problem with it is that it's 2" longer than a 13" tank, and it can be a long reach for a smaller person. It's also $200 vs the ≈$50 for the 13/3000.

I started out with a hand pump. It would take me 20-30 minutes per 13" bottle. The last 1000 was always the hardest. You have to take breaks to allow the pump to cool off, or you'll burn out your o rings. I picked up a cheap pump on amazon. It lasted about 12 bottles worth, then seized up. You may want to look into a HPA compressor fill station for a little more money. I picked up the Umarex one, which was built for filling pcp rifles and small tanks. They say it shouldn't be used to fill any tank larger than 26" bottle. It does up to 4500, and it takes between 5 and 10 minutes to do 13" bottles. It's a bit expensive too, but is low maintenance. The Yong Hang compressor can be found for half the price, but it requires water cooling. Not the end of the world, but I didn't have the room for setting up a water station all the time. A lot of reviews can be found on the YouTubes….some guys like to get a large bottle with a fill whip to carry around with them to use an HPA tank in the field. So it can be done. I don't have a pcp, so I don't have any experience with setting it up, but when I was looking for compressors; a lot of reviewers were pcp guys.

 

[RB42]

Agreed - it is much more expensive to get a carbon fiber tank, and then it hurts to not be able to fully fill it. The store I went to had 4500 capability.. and I had some leftover birthday money.

On a follow-up note, I played with the Tippmann last weekend at D14. I already had 4k in the tank, so I didn't buy all-day HPA fills. After 1.5 hours of play/5 mags I was only down to around 3k, so that tank will last me 2 short days. I don't usually play in the afternoon heat and I rarely use full auto. I never even felt/noticed the tank on my back. Even the line, which is thicker and loves to coil more (cause it's running 800psi), wasn't really an issue. Gun worked awesome!

I did have a couple p* folks quiz me about why my air line was so thick and unruly, and a couple others asked how hot I was running (chrono'd at 310-327, I set it for 325 at home), so I believe most think that because it's loud, it's firing high FPS. It isn't of course, its just the nature of the gun. I was surprised, I really thought more people knew about Tippmann mech HPS guns, but they seem to be kind of rare here. I did find that using it to flank, the rest of the team heard me quite well when I encountered the other team, which is kind of a bonus (made me more of a target I suppose, and may have drawn the other team over towards me I suspect but it helped us overall). I imagine the snipers on my team also liked me to be away from them... haha.

Still need some tweaks. My sleeper Valken ASL fires just as far and more accurately, and is more quiet. (and I got more hits with it..) But I'll get there. Thanks again for everyone's help, and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Oh side note - I'll be selling my SLP tank at D14's swap meet on June 11th. I can't use it and no sense in letting the expiration date approach, sitting idle.

 

[Graybeard]

Ya, I was looking at the replacement bottle regulators, and they cost almost as much as a new bottle anyway. So if you decide you need to get a second bottle later down the road, you aren’t really saving that much hanging on to that bottle.

Glad you had fun with it. What’s the hopup and barrel setup like? How hard will it be to upgrade your packing, or put a better inner barrel in it?

 

[RB42]

Ya, I was looking at the replacement bottle regulators, and they cost almost as much as a new bottle anyway. So if you decide you need to get a second bottle later down the road, you aren't really saving that much hanging on to that bottle.

Glad you had fun with it. What's the hop-up and barrel setup like? How hard will it be to upgrade your packing, or put a better inner barrel in it?

Wow, sorry, didn't mean to ghost you.. didn't get a notice someone replied..
Hop-up is the factory TDC hop-up (its a V2 Tippmann, its custom, not replaceable, exactly.. well not like an AEG for sure). I am using a Prometheus packing, and the barrel is an angel custom SUS 304mm (both of these items were included when I purchased it, the original owner hadn't installed them, I don't think). For this gun however, a tight-bore 6.03 is sometimes not preferred as its way over volumed and the extra air messes with consistency. There's a mod for that (drill into the nozzle and install a grub screw) however. I just haven't done it.

Too hot lately to make the trip out to play, and I bet this summer will be another killer one (lots of triple-digit days I suspect), so it will take me longer to break it in.. I hear 20k bb's is not uncommon. Then it's supposed to shoot more consistently.