Featured Upgrading my EMG Helios F4-15 PDW-X am i missing anything?

Discussion in 'Gun Building, Modifications & Repairs' started by SaturnsVoid, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. SaturnsVoid

    SaturnsVoid New Member

    So i got this for my main rifle, https://www.evike.com/products/12768/ I have played 2 days at my local (ish) CQB field and am wanting to upgrade some internal stuff with my gun to make it faster shooting and generally more of a solid gun.

    My parts list right now are;
    As you can see in the guns listing its already got a good 6.01 Polished Barrel and a Rotary Hopup. Its also got a Mosfet in the trigger but its slow and with 11.1v it overspins too so i am upgrading it to a Digital ASTER board. Was told to get a M110 Spring to get it closer to 350fps with .20 bbs as right now stock its shooting ~300fps with .20's. Was also told to go to a 13:1 gear set to help with firing speed.

    Picked a ARES SLIM motor to get the more AR15 like grip, Choose the "Super High Torque" version too. (No real info on this sadly wish i could find more). I am getting the Bucking as its better rated for 330-400fps and i doubt the stock one is that good anyways. Of course i got a shim set too.

    The trigger is just a nicer looking one then the stock.

    Is there anything i might be missing for my upgrade? Are the parts i selected good? Anyone run this ARES motor?
  2. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

    I would go with a Prometheus or Guarder spring, good experience with them in my builds. Matrix parts really just means rebranded high margin

    These will give you more realistic grip width, however the two Ares slim motors/grip I've gotten are not quite Marui spec so you may have to do some work or swapping parts off of your stock motor to get them to work with your replica, YMMV. The Super High Torque version is supposed to be an 18t 22k motor.

    I'm not sure if the launch issues with the Aster firmware were completely ironed out, I personally would go with a Titan Basic. That being said, you should probably look at your gearbox to see if it's ETU compatible since the listing already says it comes with a "built in" MOSFET unit. If you are overspinning with a built in MOSFET, you might be stuck unless you can separate it from the trigger switch as piggybacking MOSFET units is a big no-no. I think someone of the forum had tips to check mechanical function of the cutoff, delayed cutoff can cause overspin. I'm not sure who, sorry

    The listing says nothing about the quality of the inner barrel.
    A MOSFET unit has nothing to do with the 'speed' of the trigger, that is entirely on your motor, the load put on it, and your battery being up to the task.
    The listing says 320-340fps, if your replica is only shooting 300 then there might be an air seal problem assuming the chrono is reading properly. M100 spring is what it likely comes with, so an M110/SP100 should bump it up to 350-360 if you can fix the leak
    13:1 gear set will increase cycling speed assuming your motor and battery can keep up. The Ares motor you listed can, now it's up to your battery to be able to supply the current.

    If you have a ROF target you can calculate what gear ratio you need assuming you know which battery you will use and what motor. 18t motor on 3s lipo and 13:1 gears you are looking at 35rps which may be too high for your intended purpose. Your stock 18:1 gearset will put ROF around 25rps which is more realistic, and reduce the load on your motor.

    All parts should be purchased and installed with a definite goal in mind, otherwise you are just throwing money at your gun that may not give you what you want. It looks like the parts you've chosen is using this type of thought process, you've just been misled by advertising like we all have been at one point.

    What battery are you using? An 18t motor does not draw obscene amounts of current, but something capable of 25A+ continuous is necessary for reliable function.
    yrutimid and Peeque like this.

  3. SaturnsVoid

    SaturnsVoid New Member

    Thank you for replying with a lot of info!

    I swapped the spring to a Prometheus Non-Linear Irregular Pitch Airsoft AEG Upgrade Spring (Power: MS110)

    I am looking at normal motors not really sure what to get, what would you recommend?

    Here is a screen shot of the Evike YouTube video show the internal mosfet [​IMG]

    I am new to this so i am not sure if this will work, i just like how you can program the tigger for burst, binary and sensitivity. I am used to a 3.5lbs trigger on my AR15 so looking for something close to that.

    My current batterys i have are
    iPower Airsoft 1100mAh 7.4v 20c DEANS
    FCONEGY 1200mAh 3 cell 11.1v 20c DEANS
    G&P 1200mAh 7.4v 30c DEANS
    I plan to get more 11.1v bats if i canm get the Mosfet board or fix the overspin as they are easier to find for me.

    I am mainly planning to shoot in Semi-Auto / Binary with the third option being 3 round burst.

    The stock barrel is 330mm i cant find any non brass ones instock so i was hoping the stock one would be fine even though its brass too...

    Also another question, Sometimes when i fire the gun the bb will just kinda fall out the barrel or do something like 90fps or something crazy but its only sometimes most of the time its shooting fine from what i can tell anyways..
  4. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

    Do you have a ROF target? If you are only playing in semi-auto then the higher the turn count the better, 22t+

    If it's a standard v2 gearbox underneath then it more than likely can fit the Aster/Titan with or without small modification. I've never worked with Dytac gearboxes before so I have no firsthand experience, but either way you will have to pull out the stock MOSFET unit.

    Trigger pull can be modified with the trigger torsion spring independently from everything else, although nobody that I know of specs their springs for approximate pull weight. I do know that some are stiffer than others, and some springs have a 180° angle and others go past 180° which preloads them at rest. Also, the Krytac flat triggers I've worked with might have a different geometry to them as they feel much stiffer to pull than the standard Armalite/Colt milspec style trigger.

    The stock barrel should be 'fine', it being brass does not mean much unless you're somewhere humid like me and corrosion is a concern.

    You might want to break down the gun and clean the barrel and hop unit with alcohol to remove any oil. Unreliable 'grab' will lead to strange shooting behavior.

    Another thing that I always do to my AEGs is to pull out the spring that pushes the hop unit into the gearbox, and instead run O-rings along the inner barrel to prevent it from moving entirely. Use 5/16x7/16x1/16 70D O-rings, aka #6 Danco, #11 Oringsandmore, 2418T117 1/16wd Mcmaster. I've had some AEGs need two, and others need 8 to properly tension the hop unit, it all depends on the hop chamber and outer barrel design.

    If the barrel/packing is loose in the hop unit, you can wrap teflon tape around the end which also helps to seal it up.

  5. SaturnsVoid

    SaturnsVoid New Member

    Ok after reading your reply i did some researching and changed my upgrade list...

    Gate ASTER V2 Airsoft Drop-In Programmable MOSFET Module (Type: Rear Wired)
    Prometheus Gearbox Shim Set for Airsoft AEGs
    Rocket Airsoft CNC Steel Gear Set for Tokyo Marui Spec Airsoft AEG Gearboxes (Type: 13:1 High Speed)
    Prometheus Non-Linear Irregular Pitch Airsoft AEG Upgrade Spring (Power: MS110)
    Lonex TITAN Supreme Edition Airsoft AEG Motor - Torque & Speed / Long
    GATE USB-Link 2 for GATE Control Station App
    Airtech Studios Airsoft AEG Anti Reversal & Trigger Installation Tool Kit
    Prometheus Stainless Steel 6.03mm Tightbore Inner Barrel with RHOP Installed (Length: 318mm)
    Maple Leaf MR.HOP Hop-Up Bucking for R-HOP Airsoft AEG Barrels (Type: 60 Degrees)
    Maxx Model CNC Aluminum Hopup Chamber for M4 / M16 Series Airsoft AEG Rifles (Model: ME - PRO)

    Price is a bit crazy imo, $300 gun then $380 in upgrades. I figure might as well do it right the first time and go all out.

    What do you think?
  6. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

    This is a speed type motor despite what the description says, 13t if I'm not mistaken. 13:1 gear ratio on 3s lipo means you're pushing 50rps with this motor, not a good idea.

    22t motors are below 25krpm usually. ZCI is a good budget option, great bang for buck. https://www.evike.com/products/11892/ If you need something higher quality, talk to Guges about Tienly GT 25K as it should be around the same price range as the Lonex motor.

    If you're getting an inner barrel with an R-hop patch preinstalled you need to match it to a moundless type hop packing, Modify Ryusoku or Prometheus smooth bore, unless you are willing to modify a normal rubber. It also performs best with a nub designed for a larger contact patch, look for the flat hop type nubs. I don't run R-hops so I cannot give specific recommendations unfortunately

    If you get a normal inner barrel, the ML packings work well. Pair it with a ML nub, they don't work properly with the standard straw-looking type nubs.

    I know a couple of guys who are crazy about Maxx hop chambers, but it's a waste of $60 if you get acceptable grouping with your stock unit. Plastic or metal it doesn't matter, there are good and bad units made out of all types of materials. I'd try out the new barrel and rubber in your stock unit and see how it does before dropping money on stuff you might not need.

    That's not even mentioning possible physical compatibility issues.

    Your gearbox is a v2 gearbox, so get the v2 Titan instead.

    Note that the Advance model Titans come with USB links, at least all three of mine did.
    Peeque likes this.
  7. SaturnsVoid

    SaturnsVoid New Member

    Am i putting to much into this
  8. aotsukisho

    aotsukisho Well-Known Member

    If you have access to a chrono then you can try to see how consistent your stock gun is, most likely your stock parts are fine unless you're trying to do a very high stress build. If you're getting a large FPS fluctuation, there are DIY remedies you can try. Changing out the O-ring first (3/4x15/16x3/32" 70D, Danco #14, Oringsandmore #116) and regreasing (I use Superlube w/PTFE), no "silicon oil". Polishing the inside of the cylinder with Brasso or similar. The piston should slide out under its own weight from the cylinder, if it stays stuck then the O-ring is too large and/or not lubricated properly.
  9. Guges Mk3

    Guges Mk3 Well-Known Member Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    You are spending way to much for nothing significant.

    Swapping parts without knowing what your doing on your primary is a waste of money.

    This industry has no standards. Not all parts play nice with each other.

    Mainly you are assuming all parts will drop in and work like a real AR. It won't happen that way and you shouldn't be learning on your primary.

    Faster shooting...seal up your leaks first. Ares is not top in QC and their components can be tightened up for low to no cost.

    Do not swap parts with out a reason like your cylinder.

    Plus many new parts can be of a lower grade than stock parts.

    I recommend you slow down and due this on a secondary and leave your primary near stock so you can go and play. Over the last 20 years I can say there are more new guys with non-functioning primaries than other people with "all other" gun issues.

    aots, will guide you well...but don't expect this to be trouble free with the amount of "different" parts you are endeavoring to install in your AEG all at one go...on a semi-proprietary platform.
    aotsukisho likes this.