WOC Troubleshooting

Discussion in 'Gas Powered Guns' started by rich635, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    Los Angeles
    Hey AS, I got a G&P WOC in a trade, great gun but it mysteriously jammed after the first burst. Already, it shot at full auto while on semi and then the bolt jammed back and I couldn't move the selector switch. I managed to open it up and a few parts came out, shown in the pictures. However, I removed them and decided to test the gun again, it worked flawlessly. I won't be shooting anymore to avoid damaging anything, but could someone here help me identify these parts and how to fix it? Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Landa

    Landa New Member

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    Thats the sear, its spring and what seems like a shim to keep it from moving around side to side...

    If you switch to full auto, it wont fire after the bolt returns to battery.. because there is no sear to catch the hammer and trip it... the trigger will be catching the hammer and it will fire semi.

    I wouldn't shoot it though... look around for a missing pin, the sear doesn't look broken.. either the pin that holds it broke or flew off.... btw, thats crazy, never seen that in my life.
     

  3. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    Full auto works like a dream...I'm confused. I picked up a pin that looks to fit from Lowe's, I'll try to find an installation guide online and report back. Gah. On a side note, does anyone know where to pick up extra feeding lips for GHK WA mags?
     
  4. Landa

    Landa New Member

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    Miami
    Impossible... ?

    this is a WOC (well ino, same thing, its a WA) lower...notice the shinny auto sear?

    [​IMG]

    From what i can see if your lower's trigger group, there is no auto sear... and the thing that fell of definetly an auto sear...

    Are you saying the FA worked before? or it still works even after you found that piece... i don't know what to say, other than "God, ill like to report a glitch".
     
  5. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    Just went through a couple mags in full auto...WHAT IS THIS SORCERY? Well, I ordered a replacement pin (Lowe's one didn't fit) and it should be here in a week. Meanwhile, I have a broken gun that works perfectly. Huh.
     
  6. Phillies2406

    Phillies2406 New Member

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    You lucky son of a gun.
     
  7. CoppertopNeasg

    CoppertopNeasg New Member

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    Boston
    Mind Blown..............................
     
  8. Landa

    Landa New Member

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    Miami
    EDITED: this was all wrong, so i removed it... sorry.
    But here is some good info for future lurker's

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2vL_Yu6rYU&feature=related[/ame]

    this is how a AR15 works in semi automatic, with the selector in place to catch the hammer.

    [​IMG]

    this one displays full auto too, the sear moves in and the disconnector moves out of the way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  9. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    Unfortunately I didn't read the whole thing, but I got gist of it. I can't test the hammer right now, but it shoots semi fine. However, I encountered a new problem, completely unrelated but worse. I was testing out and firing all my mags (I didn't think there was any problem w/o the auto sear) and one couldn't get into the mag catch. I open the gun up and test it then and it worked. I (stupidly) tried to pull the bolt back so I can load it and grabbed the charging handle. Turns out bad idea, bolt goes flying out and a mysterious metal piece falls out. I tried to see what it was and where to put it, but couldn't. I didn't think it was important so I reassembled and fired again. Two shots then the bolt carrier only locks back while the loading nozzle (I think that's what it's called) doesn't and the gun jams. i disassemble, fix the problem and (very stupidly) fire again and the loading nozzle falls out the magwell as I try to fix it. I open it up and parts aren't going into other parts D: I'll have pictures up tomorrow and try to fix it when I can. I'm really clumsy.
     
  10. adas1223

    adas1223 Active Member

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    stratford
    nozzle falls out of the magwell!!! o_O

    my assumption is that your hammer with no auto sear pounded the nozzle springs e-clip and lock.

    then you didnt replace the nozzle lock that fell off* almost always falls off when you take out the carrier*

    thats the only why your nozzle can fall out, and is why you shouldnt fire auto on a gun with no sear.

    dont shoot the gun anymore until you REATTACH YOUR NOZZLE SPRING inside the nozzle, REPLACE THE LOCK PLATE, and DONT FIRE FULL AUTO.

    i hope those steps were clear enough. goodluck
     
  11. Landa

    Landa New Member

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    Miami
    OK, it was 4 am, im an idiot. It just hit me in class... this is my final answer correction to my original conclusion:

    The selector switch when switched from SEMI to FULL not only does it adjust the auto sear forward so that it catches the hammer, but it also pushes down on the disconector so it doesnt catch it too. Now if the diconector was worn, then full auto would occur in SEMI too... there would be nothing to catch the hammer, but your disconector, hammer, trigger are fine.

    What happened to your nozzle was bound to happen. You cant use the GBBR without an auto sear, it has a very important job. Apart from the fact that the disconnector, hammer and trigger are fine, the GBBR is still experiencing "premature engagement" The hammer is drooping on the BCG before the BCG returns to battery (all the way forward).... CRUSHING the nozzle, while the hammer is hitting the BCG in the wrong place, too early.

    The auto sear's job is to hold the hammer back until the BCG moves all the way forward, then the BCG itself trips it (hits it) and that causes the auto sear to release the hammer. It stops shooting when the trigger is let go... the trigger catches the hammer, even if the BCG returned to battery and released the hammer.. the trigger is there to catch it this time...

    Apart from the fact i forgot the selector pushes the disconnector down, everything i said in the post before is true.. do the test:

    push the hammer down, switch to FA (THE DISCONECOTOR IS OUT OF THE WAY, can no longer grab the hammer), pull the trigger and without releasing the trigger push the hammer down again.. let go of the hammer but don't release the trigger. Does it drop or stay held back?

    IT WILL DROP... nothing is holding it.. the disconector isnt there, as this is FA setting and the AUTO sear isnt there... again, extremely dangerous. the hammer is probably droping half way through the cycle.. the gun most be considerably less gas efficient too, the ROF might be higher though. PUT BACK THAT AUTO SEAR NOW lol..

    [​IMG]

    notice how the disconector moves out of the way the second the auto sear angles towards the hammer? yep, missed that. What happened to your gun, firing FA without the auto sear is completely natural, in any rifle: remove the auto sear and move to FULL so the selector moves the disconector out of the way, will still fire auto.

    Consequently: worn disconnector, same thing happens, nothing holds the hammer, but this time in SEMI or FA (if available/ select fire).

    Its kinda like the Full auto hi capa's out there, where the shave the disconector.. except yours isnt saved, its pushed down by the selector... i hope i didnt confuse you, no move posting after midnight from now on lol... but whatever i wrote here is 100% accurate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  12. adas1223

    adas1223 Active Member

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    stratford
    @ Landa, your post are way too complicated to read for such a simple problem. your correct though.

    (auto sear fell off) = His hammer is prematurely slamming the weak nozzle spring e-clip lock. (it broke) he dropped the nozzle lock plate (the thing that holds the nozzle in)

    these are the exact things to make your nozzle fall out of the magwell. you dont have the 2 things keeping the nozzle in.

    Fix those 2 things, keep off full auto, and your good.
     
  13. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    I think I'm the biggest idiot alive. So I was trying to fix it myself, and then this happened. Yeah. I suck at tech work.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. adas1223

    adas1223 Active Member

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    stratford
    yeeeeaaaahhhhh...... where is the other end of the spring? is it lost, because that's what the hammer was pounding away at. also look for the e-clip which most likely got obliterated.
     
  15. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    This is all that's left of the BCG. And the other end of the spring is stuck in the bolt carrier, I have no clue how to remove it. So...anyone know someone who's good with WA GBBRs?
     
  16. adas1223

    adas1223 Active Member

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    stratford
    me. theres an eclip you use a pointed tool to get out. looks like you just pulled the nozzle straight out before disconnecting it. maybe because your hammer jammed it into the Carrier?

    I dont mind getting your rifle back into working order. just pm me if you're interested.
     
  17. rich635

    rich635 New Member

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    The e-clip is still on, in fact I can't get it out. What happened was that the pin attaching the spring connected to that e-clip and the nozzle came loose, I tried to push it back in but it fell out, I then stretched the spring to get the pin back in but I guess the spring couldn't go back to its original shape and when I tried to push the nozzle back into the bolt carrier, it couldn't go all the way back and it doesn't work. I think the spring scrunched up and blocked the nozzle near the end, so it won't go fully back and not fit into the bolt carrier. I then got frustrated, and accidentally tore the spring. I ordered this already (for the auto-sear pin): http://airsoft-club.com/shop/internal-upgrade/springs/5ku-reinforced-spring-pin-set-for-wa-m4-gbb. Is the spring I need in there? Or do I have to find a different one? There's also this: http://airsoft-club.com/shop/intern...g-fire-enhanced-aircraft-spring-for-wa-m4-gbb, and this: http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_611_614&products_id=30679. Do I have to get one of those or am I fine with what I ordered?
     
  18. adas1223

    adas1223 Active Member

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    stratford
    you need the second kit for the spring